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Amusing to see all the pessimistic comments form programmers who have zero understanding beyond high school maths thinking somehow there is a magic solution to

Amusing to see all the pessimistic comments form programmers who have zero understanding beyond high school maths thinking somehow there is a magic solution to all the problems in physics like you can just refactor everything. Quantum field theory is definitely not stuck in the 1920s. Modern physics has a lot more going on than 19th century mathematics. We understand quite a lot about the mathematical structure underpinning quantum field theories. Quantisation is a nearly well understood process, it’s not simply heuristics and guesswork. Unfortunately, it’s not like much smarter than anyone posting here haven’t considered lots of wild ideas, it’s just that a lot of them haven’t worked, and we have been funnelled into what we currently have. There are infinitely many more interesting mathematical objects and ideas possible than what is allowed. Quantum mechanics, or say quantum field theory, has really good predictive power. What ever comes next needs to at least be consistent. Unfortunately I think things are going to get more complicated. Don’t use your intuition developed from grinding out web crap to try and reason about the forefront of human knowledge.

selfhifive 5y ago
While I do get what you're trying to say, it has to be said that many CS people have been exposed to Quantum Physics. Quantum computing is an elective at every half-decent University. To think that programmers have zero understanding beyond high school math is just ignorant.
- ravi-delia 5y ago
  At least for me and my classmates, we got a lot more wrong before we got right. Nothing is worse in this world than an undergrad fresh out of an intro quantum class with a neutered Schrodinger's equation and whatever nonsense pseudo-philosophy they picked up to deal with it. After taking a proper mathematical methods class you start to get the beginnings of an intuition for what's going on for quantum mechanics.
  - selfhifive 5y ago
    I agree. EPR states and Quantum teleportation gave us a reality check during our QC course. The university I come from did however teach linear algebra, ODEs and PDEs, etc as mandatory courses.
- fennecs 5y ago
  I don’t disagree that computer science intuition isn’t interesting, or that CS people can’t contribute. There are plenty of deep connections all over the place. You can conjecture all you want. My issue is with the tone.
mellosouls 5y ago
Don’t use your intuition developed from grinding out web crap to try and reason about the forefront of human knowledge. Have you tried front end web frameworks recently? String theory has nothing on them.
- agumonkey 5y ago
  C String > String
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- CSSer 5y ago
  Now I want my new job title to be string interpolation theorist.
  - savant_penguin 5y ago
    I wish mine were "sell out simpleton"
- exdsq 5y ago
  100% My friends a pretty decent physicist at Oxford and the hardest part of his research? Makefiles.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - dgfitz 5y ago
    Tell them to use qtcreator. They don’t even need to use the qt framework, the makefiles are just generated. I wish qmake had won the makefiles generator war the same way I wish hg won over git
- irrational 5y ago
  Eventually there will be so many JavaScript libraries and frameworks that they will collapse in upon themselves and create a black hole.
user3939382 5y ago
> Quantisation is a nearly well understood process The layman’s explanation I received for this, perhaps incorrectly, is that you fill in variables for factors that you don’t understand or can’t measure with whatever value makes the rest of the theory / equation work. Is that at all correct?
- mathematicaster 5y ago
  All correct. Oh ... and if things are still a bit floppy, just fix the gauge and you are good.
- sidlls 5y ago
  I hope that's a misunderstanding or miscommunication. It might be useful in some limited contexts, but it would point to gaps in the theory (at minimum).
  - fennecfoxen 5y ago
    There are 19 free parameters in the Standard Model. These include such values as the mass of various particles (electron, muon, tau, six quarks, Higgs), Higgs vacuum expectation value, the strength of several interactions, and the mixing angles and phases for certain interactions. You can rearrange some of the parameters so that they're not free, and redefine each of these in terms of some other related parameter — your choices here are pretty arbitrary; these values being chosen as the 'free' ones does not represent some fundamental truth. We do not have some underling deeper theory that indicates why these numbers are the way they are. Why is the electron mass ~511 kEv while the up quark is 2.2 mEv? Why not 1.9 mEv? Why not 2.3 mEv? The Standard Model doesn't generally explain it, nor does it even really intend to explain it, just to describe it.
    - adriand 5y ago
      One theory, which I find quite plausible, is that there are many universes, all of which have variations on these constants. And the reason our universe is the way it is, is because we are here to observe it - given that most other configurations of these constants wouldn’t support life (the strong anthropic principle).
chasil 5y ago
There are many practical applications of quantum mechanics. The one that I remember foremost is tunneling to (dis)charge the floating gates on flash memory transistors, but that just scratches the surface. "Flash memory chips found in USB drives use quantum tunneling to erase their memory cells." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applications_of_quantum_mechanics https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applications_of_quantum_mech... This I did not know: "It even exists in the simple light switch. The switch would not work if electrons could not quantum tunnel through the layer of oxidation on the metal contact surfaces."
- michaelwilson 5y ago
  But does it flow through wires? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHIhgxav9LY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHIhgxav9LY
  - chasil 5y ago
    It collapses through chloroplasts! https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/when-it-comes-to-photosynthesis-plants-perform-quantum-computation/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/when-it-comes-to-... Ironic that plastid-based life is so much more advanced than us, but we are the ones that ended up with (super)intelligence.
- jayd16 5y ago
  Is there something specific about oxidized metal that electrons need quantum tunneling to move through them? Why can't we just assume its normal conductivity?
  - chasil 5y ago
    Aluminum is extremely reactive, and the classic method of liberating this energy is through thermite reactions. Without the oxidation layer on aluminum, it would be an extremely hazardous substance. "Breaking bad" covered this with an etch-a-sketch. Sometimes chemistry can be surprising. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermite https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermite
qumpis 5y ago
I'm not sure where such negative emotions towards people throwing their intuition and expecting further discussing from experts comes from. Don't think anyone is suggesting that people at the "forefront" aren't capable of coming up with such ideas themselves, more like framing the familiar in other contexts to kick-off a discussion.
- fennecs 5y ago
  Except if they are framed as authoritative statement, rather than a genuine question or even wild conjecture. Then if a non expert reads it, believes it comes from someone expert, they can then take away something completely incorrect. Yes ask questions, but be honest.
haveyoubeen 5y ago
- drugstorecowboy 5y ago
bjornsing 5y ago
I think there is plenty of pessimism in the OP. Essentially physicists today do not understand quantum theory better than the last generation of physicists did. I got my master in physics 20 years ago, and it was fairly obvious to me then that this would be the case. Now compare that with AI/ML or large scale data processing over the last 20 years. I don’t think you should assume that the smartest people were those that didn’t see this coming and wanted to spend their life on interpretations of double slit experiments and string theory.
amusedcyclist 5y ago
" Don’t use your intuition developed from grinding out web crap to try and reason about the forefront of human knowledge. " . This should be stickied on every HN thread
- Gigachad 5y ago
  Honestly the funniest comment I have ever seen on HN.
dang 5y ago
Hey- can you please not post supercilious or sneering comments? It really poisons the ecosystem. What we want is curious conversation in which people share information. Putting others down who you think aren't as smart as you or others, and calling that "amusing", is definitely not what we're looking for—no matter how wrong they are or you feel they are. This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. If you know more than others, that's great—the best thing is to share some of what you know, so the rest of us can learn. Just please do it without swipes and putdowns. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=share%20know%20learn%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...

selfhifive 5y ago

While I do get what you're trying to say, it has to be said that many CS people have been exposed to Quantum Physics. Quantum computing is an elective at every half-decent University. To think that programmers have zero understanding beyond high school math is just ignorant.

ravi-delia 5y ago
At least for me and my classmates, we got a lot more wrong before we got right. Nothing is worse in this world than an undergrad fresh out of an intro quantum class with a neutered Schrodinger's equation and whatever nonsense pseudo-philosophy they picked up to deal with it. After taking a proper mathematical methods class you start to get the beginnings of an intuition for what's going on for quantum mechanics.
- selfhifive 5y ago
  I agree. EPR states and Quantum teleportation gave us a reality check during our QC course. The university I come from did however teach linear algebra, ODEs and PDEs, etc as mandatory courses.
fennecs 5y ago
I don’t disagree that computer science intuition isn’t interesting, or that CS people can’t contribute. There are plenty of deep connections all over the place. You can conjecture all you want. My issue is with the tone.

mellosouls 5y ago

Don’t use your intuition developed from grinding out web crap to try and reason about the forefront of human knowledge. Have you tried front end web frameworks recently? String theory has nothing on them.

agumonkey 5y ago
C String > String
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
CSSer 5y ago
Now I want my new job title to be string interpolation theorist.
- savant_penguin 5y ago
  I wish mine were "sell out simpleton"
exdsq 5y ago
100% My friends a pretty decent physicist at Oxford and the hardest part of his research? Makefiles.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- dgfitz 5y ago
  Tell them to use qtcreator. They don’t even need to use the qt framework, the makefiles are just generated. I wish qmake had won the makefiles generator war the same way I wish hg won over git
irrational 5y ago
Eventually there will be so many JavaScript libraries and frameworks that they will collapse in upon themselves and create a black hole.

user3939382 5y ago

> Quantisation is a nearly well understood process The layman’s explanation I received for this, perhaps incorrectly, is that you fill in variables for factors that you don’t understand or can’t measure with whatever value makes the rest of the theory / equation work. Is that at all correct?

mathematicaster 5y ago
All correct. Oh ... and if things are still a bit floppy, just fix the gauge and you are good.
sidlls 5y ago
I hope that's a misunderstanding or miscommunication. It might be useful in some limited contexts, but it would point to gaps in the theory (at minimum).
- fennecfoxen 5y ago
  There are 19 free parameters in the Standard Model. These include such values as the mass of various particles (electron, muon, tau, six quarks, Higgs), Higgs vacuum expectation value, the strength of several interactions, and the mixing angles and phases for certain interactions. You can rearrange some of the parameters so that they're not free, and redefine each of these in terms of some other related parameter — your choices here are pretty arbitrary; these values being chosen as the 'free' ones does not represent some fundamental truth. We do not have some underling deeper theory that indicates why these numbers are the way they are. Why is the electron mass ~511 kEv while the up quark is 2.2 mEv? Why not 1.9 mEv? Why not 2.3 mEv? The Standard Model doesn't generally explain it, nor does it even really intend to explain it, just to describe it.
  - adriand 5y ago
    One theory, which I find quite plausible, is that there are many universes, all of which have variations on these constants. And the reason our universe is the way it is, is because we are here to observe it - given that most other configurations of these constants wouldn’t support life (the strong anthropic principle).

chasil 5y ago

There are many practical applications of quantum mechanics. The one that I remember foremost is tunneling to (dis)charge the floating gates on flash memory transistors, but that just scratches the surface. "Flash memory chips found in USB drives use quantum tunneling to erase their memory cells." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applications_of_quantum_mechanics https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applications_of_quantum_mech... This I did not know: "It even exists in the simple light switch. The switch would not work if electrons could not quantum tunnel through the layer of oxidation on the metal contact surfaces."

michaelwilson 5y ago
But does it flow through wires? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHIhgxav9LY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHIhgxav9LY
- chasil 5y ago
  It collapses through chloroplasts! https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/when-it-comes-to-photosynthesis-plants-perform-quantum-computation/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/when-it-comes-to-... Ironic that plastid-based life is so much more advanced than us, but we are the ones that ended up with (super)intelligence.
jayd16 5y ago
Is there something specific about oxidized metal that electrons need quantum tunneling to move through them? Why can't we just assume its normal conductivity?
- chasil 5y ago
  Aluminum is extremely reactive, and the classic method of liberating this energy is through thermite reactions. Without the oxidation layer on aluminum, it would be an extremely hazardous substance. "Breaking bad" covered this with an etch-a-sketch. Sometimes chemistry can be surprising. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermite https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermite

qumpis 5y ago

I'm not sure where such negative emotions towards people throwing their intuition and expecting further discussing from experts comes from. Don't think anyone is suggesting that people at the "forefront" aren't capable of coming up with such ideas themselves, more like framing the familiar in other contexts to kick-off a discussion.

fennecs 5y ago
Except if they are framed as authoritative statement, rather than a genuine question or even wild conjecture. Then if a non expert reads it, believes it comes from someone expert, they can then take away something completely incorrect. Yes ask questions, but be honest.

haveyoubeen 5y ago

drugstorecowboy 5y ago

bjornsing 5y ago

I think there is plenty of pessimism in the OP. Essentially physicists today do not understand quantum theory better than the last generation of physicists did. I got my master in physics 20 years ago, and it was fairly obvious to me then that this would be the case. Now compare that with AI/ML or large scale data processing over the last 20 years. I don’t think you should assume that the smartest people were those that didn’t see this coming and wanted to spend their life on interpretations of double slit experiments and string theory.

amusedcyclist 5y ago

" Don’t use your intuition developed from grinding out web crap to try and reason about the forefront of human knowledge. " . This should be stickied on every HN thread

Gigachad 5y ago
Honestly the funniest comment I have ever seen on HN.

dang 5y ago

Hey- can you please not post supercilious or sneering comments? It really poisons the ecosystem. What we want is curious conversation in which people share information. Putting others down who you think aren't as smart as you or others, and calling that "amusing", is definitely not what we're looking for—no matter how wrong they are or you feel they are. This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. If you know more than others, that's great—the best thing is to share some of what you know, so the rest of us can learn. Just please do it without swipes and putdowns. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=share%20know%20learn%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...