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Putting a country with a lot of nukes in a corner and even disconnecting them from the internet seems like a bad move to me if I read the article correctly. Thi

Putting a country with a lot of nukes in a corner and even disconnecting them from the internet seems like a bad move to me if I read the article correctly. This will only make it harder if not impossible for russians to know what is going on and they kind of have no other choice than to consume state propaganda for news. I believe internet is a great force for democracy and cutting a whole country of it will probably not lead to anything good.

epolanski 5y ago
- propagandist 5y ago
  It's the logical end to the social media arc.
- B1FF_PSUVM 5y ago
  You know that mic-speaker feedback loop that yields a loud yowl? That's what we're getting now. (Back in the old days you had a lowpass filter - the "letters to the editor" written in paper. Now it's unfiltered, and it shows.)
  - trhway 5y ago
    >Back in the old days you had a lowpass filter - the "letters to the editor" written in paper. Now it's unfiltered, and it shows. In the old days such slaughter of Ukrainians would have been going for months before anyone would get to do anything. These days the whole world acted in a matter of days. The speed of ratcheting of the pressure on Russia is an important factor which adds to the stress and not allows Russia to adjust and adapt. So, the faster/deeper/wider "cancel Russia" gets the less lives will be lost.
    - epolanski 5y ago
      That's naive and shows a huge dose of racism and double standards. 183'000 civilians died by american hands in Iraq. Who did anything to pressure companies providing services to us citizens so less lives would be lost? Who boycotts Israel for its apartheid, or Saudis for killing thousands and founding international terror. What about Uighurs or Rohingya? The world is showing nothing but double standards and hysteria.
krisoft 5y ago
> I believe internet is a great force for democracy I also would like to believe that but it doesn’t seem to have worked out in favour of democracy in Russia. Do you think a few more years of internet access would do the trick where the last thirty or so failed?
- ecmascript 5y ago
  > I also would like to believe that but it doesn’t seem to have worked out in favour of democracy in Russia Has it though? I personally know younger russians and they are a lot more skeptic against the government and the propaganda than other older folks I've spoken to. It seems younger people that are more internet savvy and know english, has access to VPNs in general does not support their government as much. These are of course just my personal anecdotes but since there isn't that much data about it I think that's all I have to go on. If people in Russia don't learn english and have no contact with the western world the likelihood of them being subjected and believing the propaganda is probably higher. What good does shutting the russians out of the internet do?
  - BobbyJo 5y ago
    > What good does shutting the russians out of the internet do? It makes "going with the flow" less palatable. Generally, things have to get bad enough before people deal with problems that enact large costs, and changing your government is expensive.
    - Karrot_Kream 5y ago
      If the Russians don't know what their government is doing wrong, how can they petition their government for change?
      - BobbyJo 5y ago
        > If the Russians don't know what their government is doing wrong, how can they petition their government for change? Do you genuinely think they won't know? Honest question. I'm a pretty spoiled first-worlder, so it's hard for me to imagine a scenario where the Russian people don't find out about the internet being blocked, or goods they once had access to to disappearing, or their overall wealth taking a sudden and steep loss. Seeing as how Putin is presenting essentially all of that information to them on government channels, just with a spin, I don't see "them not knowing enough" being an honest risk.
stefan_ 5y ago
No, you have not read the article correctly. Maybe the FAQ helps: https://news.lumen.com/RussiaUkraine https://news.lumen.com/RussiaUkraine Simply put, they are closing their Russia business because of the heightened risk of state action and they have no interest in continuing their very limited operations in that environment. Maybe you missed the part where while there are economic sanctions, there are much harsher laws passed just recently inside Russia by Russia to control the media narrative around their special operation that obviously encompass internet providers and all involved in providing it and they are actively preparing to disconnect from the broader internet on their own initiative. You know, it turns out dictatorships care a lot more about cancelling media access than we ever could.
martin8412 5y ago
Russia is on paper the country with the most nukes in the world. They were however also on paper one of the countries with the most powerful military. That illusion has been shattered with the invasion of Ukraine. If their nuclear stockpile is in even remotely same state of poor maintenance as the rest of their military, then the nukes are worthless. Nuclear weapons require active maintenance to remain useful. They have an expiration date. If I was to venture a completely unqualified guess, I'd say that Russia has quite few nuclear weapons in operational state. I'd not be surprised if the number was less than 100.
- tpoacher 5y ago
  one is enough
stjohnswarts 5y ago
I don't care about that, if Russia is going to launch then let them, we will retaliate, there's not much we can do about it. However cutting off regular russian people and businesses just seems anti-democratic and wrong. It will just turn them more against the west.

epolanski 5y ago

propagandist 5y ago
It's the logical end to the social media arc.
B1FF_PSUVM 5y ago
You know that mic-speaker feedback loop that yields a loud yowl? That's what we're getting now. (Back in the old days you had a lowpass filter - the "letters to the editor" written in paper. Now it's unfiltered, and it shows.)
- trhway 5y ago
  >Back in the old days you had a lowpass filter - the "letters to the editor" written in paper. Now it's unfiltered, and it shows. In the old days such slaughter of Ukrainians would have been going for months before anyone would get to do anything. These days the whole world acted in a matter of days. The speed of ratcheting of the pressure on Russia is an important factor which adds to the stress and not allows Russia to adjust and adapt. So, the faster/deeper/wider "cancel Russia" gets the less lives will be lost.
  - epolanski 5y ago
    That's naive and shows a huge dose of racism and double standards. 183'000 civilians died by american hands in Iraq. Who did anything to pressure companies providing services to us citizens so less lives would be lost? Who boycotts Israel for its apartheid, or Saudis for killing thousands and founding international terror. What about Uighurs or Rohingya? The world is showing nothing but double standards and hysteria.

krisoft 5y ago

> I believe internet is a great force for democracy I also would like to believe that but it doesn’t seem to have worked out in favour of democracy in Russia. Do you think a few more years of internet access would do the trick where the last thirty or so failed?

ecmascript 5y ago
> I also would like to believe that but it doesn’t seem to have worked out in favour of democracy in Russia Has it though? I personally know younger russians and they are a lot more skeptic against the government and the propaganda than other older folks I've spoken to. It seems younger people that are more internet savvy and know english, has access to VPNs in general does not support their government as much. These are of course just my personal anecdotes but since there isn't that much data about it I think that's all I have to go on. If people in Russia don't learn english and have no contact with the western world the likelihood of them being subjected and believing the propaganda is probably higher. What good does shutting the russians out of the internet do?
- BobbyJo 5y ago
  > What good does shutting the russians out of the internet do? It makes "going with the flow" less palatable. Generally, things have to get bad enough before people deal with problems that enact large costs, and changing your government is expensive.
  - Karrot_Kream 5y ago
    If the Russians don't know what their government is doing wrong, how can they petition their government for change?
    - BobbyJo 5y ago
      > If the Russians don't know what their government is doing wrong, how can they petition their government for change? Do you genuinely think they won't know? Honest question. I'm a pretty spoiled first-worlder, so it's hard for me to imagine a scenario where the Russian people don't find out about the internet being blocked, or goods they once had access to to disappearing, or their overall wealth taking a sudden and steep loss. Seeing as how Putin is presenting essentially all of that information to them on government channels, just with a spin, I don't see "them not knowing enough" being an honest risk.

stefan_ 5y ago

No, you have not read the article correctly. Maybe the FAQ helps: https://news.lumen.com/RussiaUkraine https://news.lumen.com/RussiaUkraine Simply put, they are closing their Russia business because of the heightened risk of state action and they have no interest in continuing their very limited operations in that environment. Maybe you missed the part where while there are economic sanctions, there are much harsher laws passed just recently inside Russia by Russia to control the media narrative around their special operation that obviously encompass internet providers and all involved in providing it and they are actively preparing to disconnect from the broader internet on their own initiative. You know, it turns out dictatorships care a lot more about cancelling media access than we ever could.

martin8412 5y ago

Russia is on paper the country with the most nukes in the world. They were however also on paper one of the countries with the most powerful military. That illusion has been shattered with the invasion of Ukraine. If their nuclear stockpile is in even remotely same state of poor maintenance as the rest of their military, then the nukes are worthless. Nuclear weapons require active maintenance to remain useful. They have an expiration date. If I was to venture a completely unqualified guess, I'd say that Russia has quite few nuclear weapons in operational state. I'd not be surprised if the number was less than 100.

tpoacher 5y ago
one is enough

stjohnswarts 5y ago

I don't care about that, if Russia is going to launch then let them, we will retaliate, there's not much we can do about it. However cutting off regular russian people and businesses just seems anti-democratic and wrong. It will just turn them more against the west.