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If the article is accurate, this is a surprisingly ridiculous position of the judge and court. The commander has rights to not be forced to take a vaccine but w

by bmitc 5y ago

If the article is accurate, this is a surprisingly ridiculous position of the judge and court. The commander has rights to not be forced to take a vaccine but what right does he have to lead a ship? I'm surprised the Navy needs a reason to reassign him. He disobeyed orders and endangers his fellow shipmates. Why he does that (supposedly religion) is immaterial to his being reassigned due to disobedience and endangerment. Could you imagine not being able to reassign a pilot because their "religion" prevents them from losing weight or getting corrective eye surgery?

jtbayly 5y ago
- cpncrunch 5y ago
  From the article: he “exposed dozens of his crew to COVID-19 when he decided not to test himself after experiencing symptoms.”
loxias 5y ago
Yeah. I never served, but my understanding, both from common sense and an acquaintance who did is that you have to follow orders, or lose your job. How in the world are we supposed to have an effective military if we can't rely on the bedrock principles of following orders and respecting the chain of command? I don't know which to be more upset with, the officer or the activist judiciary.
- Nullabillity 5y ago
  People "following orders and respecting the chain of command" is how we got the Ukraine situation.
  - loxias 5y ago
    I agree that service members shouldn't follow illegal orders, especially including orders that amount to war crimes. Comparing an attention hungry American officer trying to make a political point to Russia using cluster bombs on civilians feels a bit of a stretch to me though. Perhaps Godwin's law even. ;-)
eggy 5y ago
I agree with you that he cannot be forced to take the vaccine, and in the military, they could just reassign him, or should be able to. It was irresponsible for him not to get tested, but now that he has had COVID, he is the same if not less dangerous to his crew than vaccinated crew members. I am not vaccinated, and my coworkers have contracted COVID twice after being vaccinated and boosted. I know my natural immunity will keep me from having a severe second bout, but it's interesting that at 57 years old, I have not gotten it and three younger, fit, vaccinated and boosted people around me have. Neither has my recovered family gotten COVID since our infection over a year ago. And we all test well-above the antibody test minimum for positive by an order of magnitude. Look Ma, no booster! That and the two studies showing the spike protein does enter the cell nucleus in vitro (like a study over 6 months ago also showed also in vitro) makes feel more comfortable with my decision not to get vaccinated. A lot of stuff coming to the surface now that things are turning back to normal somewhat. People were scrambling to vaccinate their 5 to 11 year-old children, and now it's shown to drop to 12% effectiveness after only 30 days. A low risk group, with an ineffective vaccine, with potential to enter their adapting bodies and potentially be worse for them in the short and far term (cancer 10 years down the road, fertility issues, etc., who knows?) I don't think the black-and-white, ignore-the-naturally-immune-chant of, "pandemic of the vaccinated vs. the unvaccinated" holds much water now, and people forget rather than learn, while their lords make money and do as they please. Pfizer's sure done well for itself as the once-most-mistrusted pharmacy company in one of the biggest mistrusted market (big pharma). Who can blame this CO?
- not2b 5y ago
  The Constitution says that the president is commander-in-chief of the armed forces. Commanders have been ordering their subordinates to get vaccines going all the way back to George Washington and it's unprecedented for courts to question the power of the president to do that. It's no more of an infringement than ordering an officer into battle when their is a nonzero risk of being killed is. It's part of what he signed up for. In the past, soldiers who didn't want to accept a required vaccine were removed from service.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
markdown 5y ago
> Could you imagine not being able to reassign a pilot because their "religion" prevents them from losing weight or getting corrective eye surgery? Imagine a battalion refusing malaria drugs before you send them into battle in East Africa.
kingcharles 5y ago
Religious rights don't trump everything. Try going to prison and claiming your religion requires you to wear a burqa at all times and see how far you get.

by bmitc 5y ago

jtbayly 5y ago

cpncrunch 5y ago
From the article: he “exposed dozens of his crew to COVID-19 when he decided not to test himself after experiencing symptoms.”

loxias 5y ago

Yeah. I never served, but my understanding, both from common sense and an acquaintance who did is that you have to follow orders, or lose your job. How in the world are we supposed to have an effective military if we can't rely on the bedrock principles of following orders and respecting the chain of command? I don't know which to be more upset with, the officer or the activist judiciary.

Nullabillity 5y ago
People "following orders and respecting the chain of command" is how we got the Ukraine situation.
- loxias 5y ago
  I agree that service members shouldn't follow illegal orders, especially including orders that amount to war crimes. Comparing an attention hungry American officer trying to make a political point to Russia using cluster bombs on civilians feels a bit of a stretch to me though. Perhaps Godwin's law even. ;-)

eggy 5y ago

I agree with you that he cannot be forced to take the vaccine, and in the military, they could just reassign him, or should be able to. It was irresponsible for him not to get tested, but now that he has had COVID, he is the same if not less dangerous to his crew than vaccinated crew members. I am not vaccinated, and my coworkers have contracted COVID twice after being vaccinated and boosted. I know my natural immunity will keep me from having a severe second bout, but it's interesting that at 57 years old, I have not gotten it and three younger, fit, vaccinated and boosted people around me have. Neither has my recovered family gotten COVID since our infection over a year ago. And we all test well-above the antibody test minimum for positive by an order of magnitude. Look Ma, no booster! That and the two studies showing the spike protein does enter the cell nucleus in vitro (like a study over 6 months ago also showed also in vitro) makes feel more comfortable with my decision not to get vaccinated. A lot of stuff coming to the surface now that things are turning back to normal somewhat. People were scrambling to vaccinate their 5 to 11 year-old children, and now it's shown to drop to 12% effectiveness after only 30 days. A low risk group, with an ineffective vaccine, with potential to enter their adapting bodies and potentially be worse for them in the short and far term (cancer 10 years down the road, fertility issues, etc., who knows?) I don't think the black-and-white, ignore-the-naturally-immune-chant of, "pandemic of the vaccinated vs. the unvaccinated" holds much water now, and people forget rather than learn, while their lords make money and do as they please. Pfizer's sure done well for itself as the once-most-mistrusted pharmacy company in one of the biggest mistrusted market (big pharma). Who can blame this CO?

not2b 5y ago
The Constitution says that the president is commander-in-chief of the armed forces. Commanders have been ordering their subordinates to get vaccines going all the way back to George Washington and it's unprecedented for courts to question the power of the president to do that. It's no more of an infringement than ordering an officer into battle when their is a nonzero risk of being killed is. It's part of what he signed up for. In the past, soldiers who didn't want to accept a required vaccine were removed from service.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

markdown 5y ago

> Could you imagine not being able to reassign a pilot because their "religion" prevents them from losing weight or getting corrective eye surgery? Imagine a battalion refusing malaria drugs before you send them into battle in East Africa.

kingcharles 5y ago

Religious rights don't trump everything. Try going to prison and claiming your religion requires you to wear a burqa at all times and see how far you get.