4 ms·

They didn't: https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Homicide_Rate_in_Norway.svg https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Homicide_Rate_in_N... https://www

They didn't: https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Homicide_Rate_in_Norway.svg https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Homicide_Rate_in_N... https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/01/14/national/crime-legal/number-crimes-japan-falls-postwar-low-2015/ https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/01/14/national/crime-...

ch4s3 5y ago
The Norway peak in 2011 is entirely from the Utøya mass homicide. Japan follows a similar curve despite starting and peaking later, 70% of those crimes for the whole period are nonviolent petty thefts. My mistake in including Japan doesn’t support either point your tried to make. Neither place has mass incarceration.
- ElephantsMyAnus 5y ago
  But there is no decline.
ch4s3 5y ago
The Nordic countries[1] all peak around '86-'92. Homicide is down world-wide since 1990[2]. This is a weird argument to make. I've never even encountered anyone who disagreed with this who has even a passing familiarity with criminology, economics, or broad societal trends. I'm not even sure what you're actually arguing here. You're coming across like a contrarian who is frantically googling for a counter point. Crime in Germany peaked in 1992[3]. Italy 1991 [4] Canada also 1991 [5] [1] https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2%3A526664/FULLTEXT01.pdf https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2%3A526664/FULLTEX... [2] https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Crime_drop https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Crime_drop [3] https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5?end=2018&locations=DE&start=1990&view=chart&year=1990 https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5?end=2018... [4] https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5?end=2018&locations=IT&start=1990&view=chart&year=1990 https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5?end=2018... [5] https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5?end=2018&locations=CA&start=1990&view=chart&year=1990 https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5?end=2018...
- ElephantsMyAnus 5y ago
  The problem is there is no evidence for any crime boom unless you pick the right location and the right beginning year (typically the post war years) or some such contrieved scenario. Even the graph in your second link shows it was completely insignificant.
  - ch4s3 5y ago
    The whole discussion is about the post war period. But if you look back further, homicide rates where higher. Again I’m not aware of any scholar, police organization, or or anyone really who disputes this. What even are you arguing here?
    - ElephantsMyAnus 5y ago
      I'm arguing here that your views are fuelled by wishful thinking, if not nonsense. You can't turn the world into utopia by sticking to a moral panic triggered by the civil rights movement.
      - ch4s3 5y ago
        There's no utopian thinking here, just a recounting of statistics. Crime is a lot lower now in the US an Europe than it was for most of the post war period. In so far as we have data, there's a lot less murder now than at any time for which we have records. Again these are basic facts. I'm not drawing any conclusions here really.
        ElephantsMyAnus 5y ago
        But why do you need to cherry pick the data, if it's so clear cut? https://www.econlib.org/archives/2011/06/crime_statistic.html https://www.econlib.org/archives/2011/06/crime_statistic.htm...
        ch4s3 5y ago

ch4s3 5y ago

The Norway peak in 2011 is entirely from the Utøya mass homicide. Japan follows a similar curve despite starting and peaking later, 70% of those crimes for the whole period are nonviolent petty thefts. My mistake in including Japan doesn’t support either point your tried to make. Neither place has mass incarceration.

ElephantsMyAnus 5y ago
But there is no decline.

ch4s3 5y ago

The Nordic countries[1] all peak around '86-'92. Homicide is down world-wide since 1990[2]. This is a weird argument to make. I've never even encountered anyone who disagreed with this who has even a passing familiarity with criminology, economics, or broad societal trends. I'm not even sure what you're actually arguing here. You're coming across like a contrarian who is frantically googling for a counter point. Crime in Germany peaked in 1992[3]. Italy 1991 [4] Canada also 1991 [5] [1] https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2%3A526664/FULLTEXT01.pdf https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2%3A526664/FULLTEX... [2] https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Crime_drop https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Crime_drop [3] https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5?end=2018&locations=DE&start=1990&view=chart&year=1990 https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5?end=2018... [4] https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5?end=2018&locations=IT&start=1990&view=chart&year=1990 https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5?end=2018... [5] https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5?end=2018&locations=CA&start=1990&view=chart&year=1990 https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5?end=2018...

ElephantsMyAnus 5y ago
The problem is there is no evidence for any crime boom unless you pick the right location and the right beginning year (typically the post war years) or some such contrieved scenario. Even the graph in your second link shows it was completely insignificant.
- ch4s3 5y ago
  The whole discussion is about the post war period. But if you look back further, homicide rates where higher. Again I’m not aware of any scholar, police organization, or or anyone really who disputes this. What even are you arguing here?
  - ElephantsMyAnus 5y ago
    I'm arguing here that your views are fuelled by wishful thinking, if not nonsense. You can't turn the world into utopia by sticking to a moral panic triggered by the civil rights movement.
    - ch4s3 5y ago
      There's no utopian thinking here, just a recounting of statistics. Crime is a lot lower now in the US an Europe than it was for most of the post war period. In so far as we have data, there's a lot less murder now than at any time for which we have records. Again these are basic facts. I'm not drawing any conclusions here really.
      - ElephantsMyAnus 5y ago
        But why do you need to cherry pick the data, if it's so clear cut? https://www.econlib.org/archives/2011/06/crime_statistic.html https://www.econlib.org/archives/2011/06/crime_statistic.htm...
        ch4s3 5y ago