4 ms·

> The winner of all of this? China, with cheap russian gas (that russia will be forced to sell them, because they have noone else to sell it to) and more produc

> The winner of all of this? China, with cheap russian gas (that russia will be forced to sell them, because they have noone else to sell it to) and more products/gardgets/stuff sold, with eu/usa imports stopped. This is true, and it's why sanctions are dumb. Another example is Belarus. My understanding is for years they played the West against Russia, and their authoritarian government retained some independence as a result. Then the West slapped sanctions on them, which pushed them into the suffocating arms of Putin, and it became a staging area and accomplice to Putin's invasion of Ukraine. The West probably needs some more realpolitik. Not the fuck your friends and bow down to your enemies kind that seems to be a bit in vogue, but the kind where you admit distasteful allies into your alliances against your stronger adversaries. > And the loser? Average joe, again. The real losers are the Ukrainians who are getting their country conquered by invaders.

pmoriarty 5y ago
"Another example is Belarus. My understanding is for years the played Europe against Russia, but their autocratic government retained some independence as a result. Then the West slapped sanctions on them, which pushed them into the suffocating arms of Putin, and it became a staging area and accomplice to Putin's invasion of Ukraine." Contrast that with Finland and Sweden seriously considering joining NATO, NATO putting more weapons and soldiers in to the Baltic and Eastern European states, Germany and other NATO states increasing military spending, and moving much faster towards energy independence. These consequences are evidence of a major miscalculation on Putin's part, who certainly would never want to see any of that happen. Not to mention the world edging ever closer to WW3, in which everyone would be the loser.
Mironja7 5y ago
Meh, they'll be forgotten soon... If this was some middle eastern country, destroyed by the americans, this would be a "peacekeeping" occupation.. i mean operation. The prices and the financial losses of individuals around the world would be remembered more. Sad, but true.

pmoriarty 5y ago

"Another example is Belarus. My understanding is for years the played Europe against Russia, but their autocratic government retained some independence as a result. Then the West slapped sanctions on them, which pushed them into the suffocating arms of Putin, and it became a staging area and accomplice to Putin's invasion of Ukraine." Contrast that with Finland and Sweden seriously considering joining NATO, NATO putting more weapons and soldiers in to the Baltic and Eastern European states, Germany and other NATO states increasing military spending, and moving much faster towards energy independence. These consequences are evidence of a major miscalculation on Putin's part, who certainly would never want to see any of that happen. Not to mention the world edging ever closer to WW3, in which everyone would be the loser.

Mironja7 5y ago

Meh, they'll be forgotten soon... If this was some middle eastern country, destroyed by the americans, this would be a "peacekeeping" occupation.. i mean operation. The prices and the financial losses of individuals around the world would be remembered more. Sad, but true.