6 ms·

He didn't dismiss a product because it was pretty. He dismissed the people who buy products solely because they were pretty.

by aneesh 18y ago

unalone 18y ago
But I think that's a bit snotty as well. Some people like pretty things, some people like things with insane benchmarks. To each his own if it works.
- Herring 18y ago
  Most people, i think, like both. Problem is when some company in Cupertino, CA tries to pass off crap using pretty packaging. Nobody likes to wake up one day next to a fruit colored laptop. Edit: Too soon?
  - unalone 18y ago
    I use Apple's MacBook Pro, and it runs quickly, its programs are all aesthetically pleasing, and it's an absolute joy to use. I didn't get an Air because I plan on doing some pretty intensive stuff on here, but from what i've seen of it it does a great job of being very fast for basic processes while looking beautiful. I haven't seen a single Apple product that I think is crap, not in a decade. I think that a lot of them could be BETTER, but Apple absolutely cares about making the best product that they can, and they've shown it time and time again. Also, for the record, I LIKED the original iMac. I like the new ones better, but I think that iMac was great when it first came out. So unless you've got a quantitative argument against Apple, close it: I don't care to hear insults against a company that I like without any sort of backing-up.
    - Herring 18y ago
      I must have been the only one paying attention last few weeks during the iphone complaints. Apple is fun, i imagine, when you don't care about OSS, drm, or anything that Jobs has a tight fist clenched around.
      - ashu 18y ago
        You may have a different requirement from a product (OSS, etc. - I myself prefer to use Linux because of the open-ness) while others may have different (wanting it to look good, do the common things without a hassle) - but why is that a reason to say "passing off crap"? I will agree to the iPhone complaints, so they botched up the launch by sending out a half-baked product. The 2.1 update seems to have fixed a lot of problems for many people. The iPhone is driven by software a whole lot more than other phones are, and so gets updated at a very high rate. That is a good thing. How many phones you know keep adding features to themselves or fixing their own bugs via software updates? Or do other phones just not have any bugs or annoyances? I will admit, though, that Apple tends to go overboard with its cheesy marketing tricks and ploys many times. They should let the products speak more. In most cases, they just do.
        unalone 18y ago
        Out of curiosity: what tricks and ploys do you think it pulls, beyond the "I'm a Mac" ads?
        ashu 18y ago
        The "twice as fast" and "half the price" ads were rather disingenuous. The "most advanced operating system" -- what? that's true only if you consider how great it looks. Otherwise, we can easily rattle off many Unix variants which kick OS X's ass when it comes to performance. Xcode: "the best IDE ever". MobileMe: "you can't believe this is a web-app, unheard-of usability in a web-app!" It just doesn't stop. They go overboard. As for the "I'm a Mac" ads, they are not that bad at all. Disclosure: I own an iPhone and am madly in love with it. I also own a new iMac, and love its looks and would like to make OS X work for me, but have not been very successful at that. Perhaps because I am just used to Linux.
        unalone 18y ago
        The "twice as fast" I agree you with. Xcode I've heard nothing about. MobileMe I agree with them: it's beautiful unlike any other web app I've used. The service rocks too. The operating system is absolutely the most advanced. The fact that it gives you so much power without any tinkering is stunning. Corner-window commands, the vast keyboard commands, and the incredible efficiency of Spotlight are my favorite quick things to point out.
    - mattmaroon 18y ago
      Even the original Apple TV? You could watch rented videos from iTunes on it, but couldn't purchase. It required a HD hookup, but had no HD video. It sold like 8 units total. If that wasn't crap, I don't know what was. Even the much improved version is still a misfire, but probably not crap.
    - whatusername 18y ago
      Hockey-Puck mouse? G4 Cube? And as much as the performance of the MBA is derided on here.. It's probably better performing than my thinkpad (Due to being much newer). Has what you do in the last 2 years or so really changed that much needing extra performance (On your laptop?!)
sdurkin 18y ago
Equally stupid. People can buy products for whatever reason they want. Why is beauty any less of a valid criterion than any other? I must have been born without the desire to dictate to people why they should want things.
- unalone 18y ago
  Yes. Even when I see people using things I dislike (anybody heard of Twilight? That book is the scourge of intelligent life), I find fault not in the person who likes it but in the people that chose to make that product available (in that book's case, the publishing company). People can like whatever they want, and while that might change my opinion of the person, I don't blame the product for it.
- Herring 18y ago
  Yeah, you're probably wired to dictate to people who they should dismiss.
deleted 18y ago
[deleted]
trevelyan 18y ago
Whatever the merits of how people make decisions, this is the market. I've found the most effective way to deal with it is to aim for a very simple base design, and add design elements iteratively rather than attempting to build a complex design and forcing it into place. A few highly polished and professional graphics make a site seem polished, and are easier to get working across multiple browsers.

He didn't dismiss a product because it was pretty. He dismissed the people who buy products solely because they were pretty.

by aneesh 18y ago

He didn't dismiss a product because it was pretty. He dismissed the people who buy products solely because they were pretty.

unalone 18y ago

But I think that's a bit snotty as well. Some people like pretty things, some people like things with insane benchmarks. To each his own if it works.

Herring 18y ago
Most people, i think, like both. Problem is when some company in Cupertino, CA tries to pass off crap using pretty packaging. Nobody likes to wake up one day next to a fruit colored laptop. Edit: Too soon?
- unalone 18y ago
  I use Apple's MacBook Pro, and it runs quickly, its programs are all aesthetically pleasing, and it's an absolute joy to use. I didn't get an Air because I plan on doing some pretty intensive stuff on here, but from what i've seen of it it does a great job of being very fast for basic processes while looking beautiful. I haven't seen a single Apple product that I think is crap, not in a decade. I think that a lot of them could be BETTER, but Apple absolutely cares about making the best product that they can, and they've shown it time and time again. Also, for the record, I LIKED the original iMac. I like the new ones better, but I think that iMac was great when it first came out. So unless you've got a quantitative argument against Apple, close it: I don't care to hear insults against a company that I like without any sort of backing-up.
  - Herring 18y ago
    I must have been the only one paying attention last few weeks during the iphone complaints. Apple is fun, i imagine, when you don't care about OSS, drm, or anything that Jobs has a tight fist clenched around.
    - ashu 18y ago
      You may have a different requirement from a product (OSS, etc. - I myself prefer to use Linux because of the open-ness) while others may have different (wanting it to look good, do the common things without a hassle) - but why is that a reason to say "passing off crap"? I will agree to the iPhone complaints, so they botched up the launch by sending out a half-baked product. The 2.1 update seems to have fixed a lot of problems for many people. The iPhone is driven by software a whole lot more than other phones are, and so gets updated at a very high rate. That is a good thing. How many phones you know keep adding features to themselves or fixing their own bugs via software updates? Or do other phones just not have any bugs or annoyances? I will admit, though, that Apple tends to go overboard with its cheesy marketing tricks and ploys many times. They should let the products speak more. In most cases, they just do.
      - unalone 18y ago
        Out of curiosity: what tricks and ploys do you think it pulls, beyond the "I'm a Mac" ads?
        ashu 18y ago
        The "twice as fast" and "half the price" ads were rather disingenuous. The "most advanced operating system" -- what? that's true only if you consider how great it looks. Otherwise, we can easily rattle off many Unix variants which kick OS X's ass when it comes to performance. Xcode: "the best IDE ever". MobileMe: "you can't believe this is a web-app, unheard-of usability in a web-app!" It just doesn't stop. They go overboard. As for the "I'm a Mac" ads, they are not that bad at all. Disclosure: I own an iPhone and am madly in love with it. I also own a new iMac, and love its looks and would like to make OS X work for me, but have not been very successful at that. Perhaps because I am just used to Linux.
        unalone 18y ago
        The "twice as fast" I agree you with. Xcode I've heard nothing about. MobileMe I agree with them: it's beautiful unlike any other web app I've used. The service rocks too. The operating system is absolutely the most advanced. The fact that it gives you so much power without any tinkering is stunning. Corner-window commands, the vast keyboard commands, and the incredible efficiency of Spotlight are my favorite quick things to point out.
  - mattmaroon 18y ago
    Even the original Apple TV? You could watch rented videos from iTunes on it, but couldn't purchase. It required a HD hookup, but had no HD video. It sold like 8 units total. If that wasn't crap, I don't know what was. Even the much improved version is still a misfire, but probably not crap.
  - whatusername 18y ago
    Hockey-Puck mouse? G4 Cube? And as much as the performance of the MBA is derided on here.. It's probably better performing than my thinkpad (Due to being much newer). Has what you do in the last 2 years or so really changed that much needing extra performance (On your laptop?!)

sdurkin 18y ago

Equally stupid. People can buy products for whatever reason they want. Why is beauty any less of a valid criterion than any other? I must have been born without the desire to dictate to people why they should want things.

unalone 18y ago
Yes. Even when I see people using things I dislike (anybody heard of Twilight? That book is the scourge of intelligent life), I find fault not in the person who likes it but in the people that chose to make that product available (in that book's case, the publishing company). People can like whatever they want, and while that might change my opinion of the person, I don't blame the product for it.
Herring 18y ago
Yeah, you're probably wired to dictate to people who they should dismiss.

deleted 18y ago

[deleted]

trevelyan 18y ago

Whatever the merits of how people make decisions, this is the market. I've found the most effective way to deal with it is to aim for a very simple base design, and add design elements iteratively rather than attempting to build a complex design and forcing it into place. A few highly polished and professional graphics make a site seem polished, and are easier to get working across multiple browsers.