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You’re asking for evidence that oil exploration and extraction leaves contaminants in water tables? The US EPA gives 5 easy to understand situations where frack

by op00to 5y ago

You’re asking for evidence that oil exploration and extraction leaves contaminants in water tables? The US EPA gives 5 easy to understand situations where fracking destroys drinking water through toxic chemicals making it into groundwater. • Spills during the handling of hydraulic fracturing fluids and chemicals or produced water that result in large volumes or high concentrations of chemicals reaching groundwater resources; • Injection of hydraulic fracturing fluids into wells with inadequate mechanical integrity, allowing gases or liquids to move to groundwater resources; • Injection of hydraulic fracturing fluids directly into groundwater resources; • Discharge of inadequately treated hydraulic fracturing wastewater to surface water; and • Disposal or storage of hydraulic fracturing wastewater in unlined pits, resulting in contamination ofgroundwater resource https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2016-12/documents/hf_final_assessment_fact_sheet.pdf https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2016-12/documents/hf...

dr_dshiv 5y ago
Those are all listed possibilities. Not evidence for its occurrence. Contrast this to the evidence for coal contaminating water supplies with mercury. Fracking, despite its reputation and scary name, is safe. Like, flying airplanes safe.
- dr_dshiv 5y ago
  Here is a very recent paper describing three worst of the worst situations, where a casing was improperly cemented. Even then it is really unclear how bad the contamination was. Keep in mind there are over a million fracked wells in the USA. Hammond, P. A., Wen, T., Brantley, S. L., & Engelder, T. (2020). Gas well integrity and methane migration: evaluation of published evidence during shale-gas development in the USA. Hydrogeology Journal, 28(4), 1481-1502.
  - markdown 5y ago
    Can you light your tap water on fire, or do you refuse to live where this "safe" fracking occurs?
    - dr_dshiv 5y ago
      Read this review. I know it seems like methane in the water is caused by fracking but there are good reasons to believe that it isn’t. https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/full/10.1146/annurev-environ-102017-025800 https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/full/10.1146/annurev-envir...
    - twofornone 5y ago
      How commonly do you think that flammable tap water issue occurs outside of anti-fracking propaganda films? Also you're aware that it is an occasionally natural phenomenon, right?
    - kube-system 5y ago
      Well water is often naturally pretty nasty even without fracking. I am generally anti-fracking, but take those videos you’ve seen with a grain of salt. Those things happened routinely even before the fracking boom. There are better criticisms of fracking like the higher rates of disease around well sites, and improper dumping of waste.
- Spooky23 5y ago
  Drilling companies are able to treat the toxic soup that is pumped into the ground as trade secrets, so it’s difficult to publish definitive data. Fracking leaks methanol, salts and other compounds into ground water. Operations often contaminate water from leaky pits with diesel and other compounds. Coal is probably the nastiest fuel by any measure. But that isn’t to say that fracking operations are not problematic, and since industry has fought tooth and nail to prevent meaningful, peer reviewed study of the issue, it’s absurd to compare to a well understood, well measured thing like air safety.
  - dr_dshiv 5y ago
    > Fracking leaks methanol, salts and other compounds into ground water. Operations often contaminate water from leaky pits with diesel and other compounds. No, the evidence from peer reviewed studies show that this does not occur often. You are presenting this as though fracking leads to ground water contamination. That is simply not the case. Agriculture and urban activities are much bigger sources of contamination. This recent review says: “ A perceived risk, that fracking chemicals may migrate from the 0.5- to 3-km depth of injection to upper shallow aquifers used for water supply, is not considered to be significant (90, 91). The lack of baseline data on aquifer conditions is cited as a major limitation to the detection and attribution of the impacts (90–92). Wide variations in methane concentrations in groundwater are noted in areas with intensive gas production as well as in areas with limited activity.” https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/full/10.1146/annurev-environ-102017-025800 https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/full/10.1146/annurev-envir...

by op00to 5y ago

dr_dshiv 5y ago

Those are all listed possibilities. Not evidence for its occurrence. Contrast this to the evidence for coal contaminating water supplies with mercury. Fracking, despite its reputation and scary name, is safe. Like, flying airplanes safe.

dr_dshiv 5y ago
Here is a very recent paper describing three worst of the worst situations, where a casing was improperly cemented. Even then it is really unclear how bad the contamination was. Keep in mind there are over a million fracked wells in the USA. Hammond, P. A., Wen, T., Brantley, S. L., & Engelder, T. (2020). Gas well integrity and methane migration: evaluation of published evidence during shale-gas development in the USA. Hydrogeology Journal, 28(4), 1481-1502.
- markdown 5y ago
  Can you light your tap water on fire, or do you refuse to live where this "safe" fracking occurs?
  - dr_dshiv 5y ago
    Read this review. I know it seems like methane in the water is caused by fracking but there are good reasons to believe that it isn’t. https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/full/10.1146/annurev-environ-102017-025800 https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/full/10.1146/annurev-envir...
  - twofornone 5y ago
    How commonly do you think that flammable tap water issue occurs outside of anti-fracking propaganda films? Also you're aware that it is an occasionally natural phenomenon, right?
  - kube-system 5y ago
    Well water is often naturally pretty nasty even without fracking. I am generally anti-fracking, but take those videos you’ve seen with a grain of salt. Those things happened routinely even before the fracking boom. There are better criticisms of fracking like the higher rates of disease around well sites, and improper dumping of waste.
Spooky23 5y ago
Drilling companies are able to treat the toxic soup that is pumped into the ground as trade secrets, so it’s difficult to publish definitive data. Fracking leaks methanol, salts and other compounds into ground water. Operations often contaminate water from leaky pits with diesel and other compounds. Coal is probably the nastiest fuel by any measure. But that isn’t to say that fracking operations are not problematic, and since industry has fought tooth and nail to prevent meaningful, peer reviewed study of the issue, it’s absurd to compare to a well understood, well measured thing like air safety.
- dr_dshiv 5y ago
  > Fracking leaks methanol, salts and other compounds into ground water. Operations often contaminate water from leaky pits with diesel and other compounds. No, the evidence from peer reviewed studies show that this does not occur often. You are presenting this as though fracking leads to ground water contamination. That is simply not the case. Agriculture and urban activities are much bigger sources of contamination. This recent review says: “ A perceived risk, that fracking chemicals may migrate from the 0.5- to 3-km depth of injection to upper shallow aquifers used for water supply, is not considered to be significant (90, 91). The lack of baseline data on aquifer conditions is cited as a major limitation to the detection and attribution of the impacts (90–92). Wide variations in methane concentrations in groundwater are noted in areas with intensive gas production as well as in areas with limited activity.” https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/full/10.1146/annurev-environ-102017-025800 https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/full/10.1146/annurev-envir...