5 ms·

This just hints at how toxic the fracking chemicals used are. It's not just the water, it's the pollution that is compounding this issue. Water always has, and

This just hints at how toxic the fracking chemicals used are. It's not just the water, it's the pollution that is compounding this issue. Water always has, and always will recirculate - but pumping dangerous contaminants into our water tables is a big problem that effects current generations as well.

dr_dshiv 5y ago
Evidence please. (Of contaminants in water tables, not the toxicity of oil)
- op00to 5y ago
  You’re asking for evidence that oil exploration and extraction leaves contaminants in water tables? The US EPA gives 5 easy to understand situations where fracking destroys drinking water through toxic chemicals making it into groundwater. • Spills during the handling of hydraulic fracturing fluids and chemicals or produced water that result in large volumes or high concentrations of chemicals reaching groundwater resources; • Injection of hydraulic fracturing fluids into wells with inadequate mechanical integrity, allowing gases or liquids to move to groundwater resources; • Injection of hydraulic fracturing fluids directly into groundwater resources; • Discharge of inadequately treated hydraulic fracturing wastewater to surface water; and • Disposal or storage of hydraulic fracturing wastewater in unlined pits, resulting in contamination ofgroundwater resource https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2016-12/documents/hf_final_assessment_fact_sheet.pdf https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2016-12/documents/hf...
  - dr_dshiv 5y ago
    Those are all listed possibilities. Not evidence for its occurrence. Contrast this to the evidence for coal contaminating water supplies with mercury. Fracking, despite its reputation and scary name, is safe. Like, flying airplanes safe.
    - dr_dshiv 5y ago
      Here is a very recent paper describing three worst of the worst situations, where a casing was improperly cemented. Even then it is really unclear how bad the contamination was. Keep in mind there are over a million fracked wells in the USA. Hammond, P. A., Wen, T., Brantley, S. L., & Engelder, T. (2020). Gas well integrity and methane migration: evaluation of published evidence during shale-gas development in the USA. Hydrogeology Journal, 28(4), 1481-1502.
      - markdown 5y ago
        Can you light your tap water on fire, or do you refuse to live where this "safe" fracking occurs?
        dr_dshiv 5y ago
        Read this review. I know it seems like methane in the water is caused by fracking but there are good reasons to believe that it isn’t. https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/full/10.1146/annurev-environ-102017-025800 https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/full/10.1146/annurev-envir...
        twofornone 5y ago
        How commonly do you think that flammable tap water issue occurs outside of anti-fracking propaganda films? Also you're aware that it is an occasionally natural phenomenon, right?
        kube-system 5y ago
        Well water is often naturally pretty nasty even without fracking. I am generally anti-fracking, but take those videos you’ve seen with a grain of salt. Those things happened routinely even before the fracking boom. There are better criticisms of fracking like the higher rates of disease around well sites, and improper dumping of waste.
    - Spooky23 5y ago
      Drilling companies are able to treat the toxic soup that is pumped into the ground as trade secrets, so it’s difficult to publish definitive data. Fracking leaks methanol, salts and other compounds into ground water. Operations often contaminate water from leaky pits with diesel and other compounds. Coal is probably the nastiest fuel by any measure. But that isn’t to say that fracking operations are not problematic, and since industry has fought tooth and nail to prevent meaningful, peer reviewed study of the issue, it’s absurd to compare to a well understood, well measured thing like air safety.
- dr_dshiv 5y ago
  Here is a review of over 20 studies showing that fracking does not contaminate groundwater. Including studies by the USGS, EPA, Stanford, etc: https://www.cred.org/scientists-fracking-doesnt-harm-water/ https://www.cred.org/scientists-fracking-doesnt-harm-water/ But very open to additional evidence.
  - fn-mote 5y ago
    A non-partisan source would be more convincing. === A spot check shows item 15 in the list, published 2014, is based on work from 2011-12 and the abstract concludes with: > This study provides a baseline of water-quality conditions in the Monongahela River Basin in West Virginia during the early phases of development of the Marcellus Shale gas field. Although not all inclusive, the results of this study provide a set of reliable water-quality data against which future data sets can be compared and the effects of shale-gas development may be determined. That is to say, this is a baseline measurement from the start of exploration, not a demonstration that fracking goes not contaminate groundwater. === The MIT report listed as item 26 on the list does say the process is mostly safe, which I respect, but also page 39 lists counts of incidents over a four or five year period, including 20 incidents of "groundwater contamination by natural gas or drilling fluid". So it's not like problems do not happen.
    - dr_dshiv 5y ago
      Here is a non partisan source. https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/full/10.1146/annurev-environ-102017-025800 https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/full/10.1146/annurev-envir...
- kajecounterhack 5y ago
  https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jul/21/toxic-forever-chemicals-pfas-fracking https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jul/21/toxic-... PFAS stay in the environment and are harmful to humans.

dr_dshiv 5y ago

Evidence please. (Of contaminants in water tables, not the toxicity of oil)

op00to 5y ago
You’re asking for evidence that oil exploration and extraction leaves contaminants in water tables? The US EPA gives 5 easy to understand situations where fracking destroys drinking water through toxic chemicals making it into groundwater. • Spills during the handling of hydraulic fracturing fluids and chemicals or produced water that result in large volumes or high concentrations of chemicals reaching groundwater resources; • Injection of hydraulic fracturing fluids into wells with inadequate mechanical integrity, allowing gases or liquids to move to groundwater resources; • Injection of hydraulic fracturing fluids directly into groundwater resources; • Discharge of inadequately treated hydraulic fracturing wastewater to surface water; and • Disposal or storage of hydraulic fracturing wastewater in unlined pits, resulting in contamination ofgroundwater resource https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2016-12/documents/hf_final_assessment_fact_sheet.pdf https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2016-12/documents/hf...
- dr_dshiv 5y ago
  Those are all listed possibilities. Not evidence for its occurrence. Contrast this to the evidence for coal contaminating water supplies with mercury. Fracking, despite its reputation and scary name, is safe. Like, flying airplanes safe.
  - dr_dshiv 5y ago
    Here is a very recent paper describing three worst of the worst situations, where a casing was improperly cemented. Even then it is really unclear how bad the contamination was. Keep in mind there are over a million fracked wells in the USA. Hammond, P. A., Wen, T., Brantley, S. L., & Engelder, T. (2020). Gas well integrity and methane migration: evaluation of published evidence during shale-gas development in the USA. Hydrogeology Journal, 28(4), 1481-1502.
    - markdown 5y ago
      Can you light your tap water on fire, or do you refuse to live where this "safe" fracking occurs?
      - dr_dshiv 5y ago
        Read this review. I know it seems like methane in the water is caused by fracking but there are good reasons to believe that it isn’t. https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/full/10.1146/annurev-environ-102017-025800 https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/full/10.1146/annurev-envir...
      - twofornone 5y ago
        How commonly do you think that flammable tap water issue occurs outside of anti-fracking propaganda films? Also you're aware that it is an occasionally natural phenomenon, right?
      - kube-system 5y ago
        Well water is often naturally pretty nasty even without fracking. I am generally anti-fracking, but take those videos you’ve seen with a grain of salt. Those things happened routinely even before the fracking boom. There are better criticisms of fracking like the higher rates of disease around well sites, and improper dumping of waste.
  - Spooky23 5y ago
    Drilling companies are able to treat the toxic soup that is pumped into the ground as trade secrets, so it’s difficult to publish definitive data. Fracking leaks methanol, salts and other compounds into ground water. Operations often contaminate water from leaky pits with diesel and other compounds. Coal is probably the nastiest fuel by any measure. But that isn’t to say that fracking operations are not problematic, and since industry has fought tooth and nail to prevent meaningful, peer reviewed study of the issue, it’s absurd to compare to a well understood, well measured thing like air safety.
dr_dshiv 5y ago
Here is a review of over 20 studies showing that fracking does not contaminate groundwater. Including studies by the USGS, EPA, Stanford, etc: https://www.cred.org/scientists-fracking-doesnt-harm-water/ https://www.cred.org/scientists-fracking-doesnt-harm-water/ But very open to additional evidence.
- fn-mote 5y ago
  A non-partisan source would be more convincing. === A spot check shows item 15 in the list, published 2014, is based on work from 2011-12 and the abstract concludes with: > This study provides a baseline of water-quality conditions in the Monongahela River Basin in West Virginia during the early phases of development of the Marcellus Shale gas field. Although not all inclusive, the results of this study provide a set of reliable water-quality data against which future data sets can be compared and the effects of shale-gas development may be determined. That is to say, this is a baseline measurement from the start of exploration, not a demonstration that fracking goes not contaminate groundwater. === The MIT report listed as item 26 on the list does say the process is mostly safe, which I respect, but also page 39 lists counts of incidents over a four or five year period, including 20 incidents of "groundwater contamination by natural gas or drilling fluid". So it's not like problems do not happen.
  - dr_dshiv 5y ago
    Here is a non partisan source. https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/full/10.1146/annurev-environ-102017-025800 https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/full/10.1146/annurev-envir...
kajecounterhack 5y ago
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jul/21/toxic-forever-chemicals-pfas-fracking https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jul/21/toxic-... PFAS stay in the environment and are harmful to humans.