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So, for starters, they explicitly say that sanctions guide their actions, and they're also doing things in addition. As was already explained, it's the obvious

So, for starters, they explicitly say that sanctions guide their actions, and they're also doing things in addition. As was already explained, it's the obvious play - why would you continue to pursue business in Russia right now? How are you going to get paid? Second, "social outrage machine" is a pretty ridiculous characterization. You're painting this as if it's some Twitter mob upset about a minor grievance as opposed to the reality that a hostile country is committing war crimes.

slibhb 5y ago
> why would you continue to pursue business in Russia right now? How are you going to get paid? Even if this is true, is it a good thing? Do we want sanctions that make it impossible to do business with a Russian citizen or company? Do we want companies to go beyond government sanctions? > Second, "social outrage machine" is a pretty ridiculous characterization. You're painting this as if it's some Twitter mob upset about a minor grievance as opposed to the reality that a hostile country is committing war crimes. It has not been established that Russia has committed war crimes. The social pressure brought to bear has the character of a twitter mob, it's as thoughtful, and I worry the consequences will be similar (bad). There's something to be said for ratcheting up sanctions slowly. If you go all-in at once, the country being sanctioned has no incentive to change their behavior. There's also something undeniably weird about companies interfering in international relations.
- rurp 5y ago
  > There's something to be said for ratcheting up sanctions slowly. If you go all-in at once, the country being sanctioned has no incentive to change their behavior. I couldn't disagree more strongly. Russia is murdering thousands of people per day. Every day, including today. This is not the time for plodding deliberation. Quick action has the possibility of saving millions of homes and thousands of lives. The cause of the sanctions is crystal clear. If Russia wants the sanctions to end they need to stop invading another country and murdering its citizens. > There's also something undeniably weird about companies interfering in international relations. Cutting off business relations is exactly how sanctions work. This happens both through explicit rules and implicit ones. Companies err on the side of leaving the sanctioned country to avoid compliance headaches, the risk of accidentally violating sanctions, and to avoid funding a murderous dictator. All of this is a normal and expected part of how sanctions work.
  - slibhb 5y ago
    > I couldn't disagree more strongly. Russia is murdering thousands of people per day. Every day, including today. This is not the time for plodding deliberation. Quick action has the possibility of saving millions of homes and thousands of lives. In my experience this is exactly the kind of rhetoric that leads to large mistakes. This whole climate reminds me of post-9/11. Hope it goes better this time.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - lenkite 5y ago
    > Russia is murdering thousands of people per day Hyperbole sounds good but what about sanctions on nations carrying out all the other military operations bombing people presently with US arms and even military assistance ? (Saudi bombing Yemen for some years now)
- staticassertion 5y ago
  > It has not been established that Russia has committed war crimes. They've been accused of multiple war crimes within a period of a few days.

slibhb 5y ago

> why would you continue to pursue business in Russia right now? How are you going to get paid? Even if this is true, is it a good thing? Do we want sanctions that make it impossible to do business with a Russian citizen or company? Do we want companies to go beyond government sanctions? > Second, "social outrage machine" is a pretty ridiculous characterization. You're painting this as if it's some Twitter mob upset about a minor grievance as opposed to the reality that a hostile country is committing war crimes. It has not been established that Russia has committed war crimes. The social pressure brought to bear has the character of a twitter mob, it's as thoughtful, and I worry the consequences will be similar (bad). There's something to be said for ratcheting up sanctions slowly. If you go all-in at once, the country being sanctioned has no incentive to change their behavior. There's also something undeniably weird about companies interfering in international relations.

rurp 5y ago
> There's something to be said for ratcheting up sanctions slowly. If you go all-in at once, the country being sanctioned has no incentive to change their behavior. I couldn't disagree more strongly. Russia is murdering thousands of people per day. Every day, including today. This is not the time for plodding deliberation. Quick action has the possibility of saving millions of homes and thousands of lives. The cause of the sanctions is crystal clear. If Russia wants the sanctions to end they need to stop invading another country and murdering its citizens. > There's also something undeniably weird about companies interfering in international relations. Cutting off business relations is exactly how sanctions work. This happens both through explicit rules and implicit ones. Companies err on the side of leaving the sanctioned country to avoid compliance headaches, the risk of accidentally violating sanctions, and to avoid funding a murderous dictator. All of this is a normal and expected part of how sanctions work.
- slibhb 5y ago
  > I couldn't disagree more strongly. Russia is murdering thousands of people per day. Every day, including today. This is not the time for plodding deliberation. Quick action has the possibility of saving millions of homes and thousands of lives. In my experience this is exactly the kind of rhetoric that leads to large mistakes. This whole climate reminds me of post-9/11. Hope it goes better this time.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- lenkite 5y ago
  > Russia is murdering thousands of people per day Hyperbole sounds good but what about sanctions on nations carrying out all the other military operations bombing people presently with US arms and even military assistance ? (Saudi bombing Yemen for some years now)
staticassertion 5y ago
> It has not been established that Russia has committed war crimes. They've been accused of multiple war crimes within a period of a few days.