6 ms·

They did better with the limited space they have — they included a bunch of multi-functional USB-C ports that can be used with dongles for additional HDMI ports

They did better with the limited space they have — they included a bunch of multi-functional USB-C ports that can be used with dongles for additional HDMI ports!

assttoasstmgr 5y ago
Are you referring to the front panel which is about 3.5" high x 7.7" wide and about 90% an empty blank face?
yupper32 5y ago
"With the limited space they have"? They chose how much space they had to work with...
- dylan604 5y ago
  Because nobody outside hardcore computer nerds wants a beige box tower with 14 drive bays sitting on their desk. People want quite little boxes that gets work done without having to have dedicated room for loud machines.
  - assttoasstmgr 5y ago
    There is plenty of room for a second HDMI port (or mini DP) especially if they went to a vertical configuration for HDMI.
    - dylan604 5y ago
      So your opinion is that you want it. My opinion is I don't. HDMI is much more limiting. Say that you're a manufacturer trying to keep an eye towards wants new vs supporting what's old, what decisions do you make to support new and retro without increasing the costs? At some point, having backseat decision makers giving input results in the car designed by Homer. Of all of the things I've personally railed on Apple about in the past as well as others, their most recent HW offerings have been a great compromise. They've brought back some USB-A, SD card reader, HDMI, etc. They realized they've gone too far in certain areas, but some how they had a come to Jeebus meeting that reigned them back in.
      - assttoasstmgr 5y ago
        If there were two HDMI ports, how would that impact your one-HDMI world? It's clear from the comments others would find it useful. So that's a valid compromise. It's on the back of the unit so you wouldn't have to stare at that second unused port and shudder in disgust. > trying to keep an eye towards wants new vs supporting what's old No one is suggesting they trade anything away. Apple has settled on USB-C. But there's plenty of extra room on the rear panel. Your argument assumes benevolence on Apple's part. For all you know the chips support dual HDMI, they removed it to save money which ends up being pure profit because they didn't reduce the product price at all. Do you think adding a second HDMI would increase the arbitrary price from $2k to $2k plus $20? For the record, I would LOVE it if the Mac startup chime played "La Cucaracha"
        chipotle_coyote 5y ago
        > For all you know the chips support dual HDMI Sure, but I don't think any Apple Silicon Mac has dual HDMI. While I guess it's possible that they spent the money to design dual HDMI support in their own chips and then said "but now that we've done this, we can save twenty bucks by not actually making the physical ports," but doesn't it seem likely that they also saved the money by…not putting it on the chip? > Do you think adding a second HDMI would increase the arbitrary price from $2k to $2k plus $20? Do you think anyone contemplating buying a computer that starts at $2K is going to suddenly stop, slap their forehead, and scream, "To connect two HDMI monitors, I'm going to have to buy a $15 USB-C to HDMI cable instead of a $6 HDMI cable! That extra $9 blows my budget! CURSE YOU, TIM COOK!" I mean, I get what you're saying, but this just seems like a weirdly tiny hill to die on. :) > For the record, I would LOVE it if the Mac startup chime played "La Cucaracha" Well, who wouldn't.
        dylan604 5y ago
        You want a 2nd HDMI port, probably because you already own HDMI cables by the drawer full. That's a valid something. However, it's not like you have to replace your monitors because of only one HDMI port. There are cables that go from TB4 to HDMI without dongles. Yes, you would need a new something instead of the something you already have. Do you really know what the cost of adding a 2nd HDMI port to a system is? I do not. I do know it will be much more than the cost of the actual port connector itself. There's a new hole to be added to the case. There's more robotically soldered points to connect the new port to the system. Of the way the system is laid out on the board, is there enough bandwidth to supply signals to all of the ports? I have no idea the level of complexities involved in deciding what ports are available with the bandwidth of the system, but I do not for a second think that I could do it better.
    - ascagnel_ 5y ago
      Why miniDP? Just use the DisplayPort side channel that already exists in USB-C connectors; you can buy inexpensive USB-C-to-DP cables.
  - intrasight 5y ago
    The advantage of a huge beige box ( mine is white actually) is that easy airflow and acoustic padding makes them pretty quiet. But yes huge. Mine is 24" x 20" x 10". And very heavy. Not on my desk.
    - Hamuko 5y ago
      Well, Apple claims that this little box will stay "whisper quiet" anyways. Also, I'm pretty excited to replace my big tower with this thing and finally get my computers off the floor.
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    I don't think anyone besides hardcore computer nerds actually care what their computers look like. Lest we repeat the sins of The Trash Can Mac...
    - chaostheory 5y ago
      Funny you mention it, but this looks like the spiritual successor
      - dylan604 5y ago
        Once they mentioned circular power supply, I cringed like a bowl of petunias thinking "oh no, not again"
    - dylan604 5y ago
      For people with big clunky PC boxes, they stick it under a desk or on the floor because that's where it fits and it's out of sight. Because of the "sleek" design and smaller size, Apple has people convinced that the computer should be like children in the '50s--seen but not heard. If you offer someone a computer in the shape of the mac mini or this new studio design OR they could have a typical PC style box, I'm guessing the majority of people will choose the smaller box. Even if there are no Apple logos on the smaller box. Nobody wants a 30+lb box any more. As an editor, you can take this bad boy on the road with you without incurring overweight luggage fees at the airport.
      - pjmlp 5y ago
        The keyword being offer, as long as they don't have to pay for it.
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    Given the amount of people using Apple desktop gear across the planet and beige box towers, I beg to differ.
    - dylan604 5y ago
      Beg all you want, but it won't change my mind. Just because someone uses something because it is all that is available does not mean they want it.
      - pjmlp 5y ago
        Some people still argue that the Earth is flat and Moon landing never happened, changing minds isn't easy anyway.
- disillusioned 5y ago
  This is Google with their new battery-powered Nest Doorbell explaining that it can't record 24/7 video _even when it's plugged in_ because "it's too thin and the thermals presented problems." MAKE IT THICKER. IT'S A GODDAMN DOORBELL. YOU CONTROL THE THICKNESS! THERE IS LITERALLY NO REQUIREMENT IT BE THAT THIN!
  - martimarkov 5y ago
    I really hate this type of spam but I had to: <3 -- I really get so angry when these arguments are given so I feel your pain.
  - duped 5y ago
    Buy a PoE sec camera instead, it's kind of wild to me that you'd expect a doorbell to do this. FWIW I do have a thickness requirement to install one on my door
paulmd 5y ago
USB-C (or Thunderbolt) can also carry a DisplayPort link natively, and you don't even need a dongle for that. Workstations don't really care about HDMI, that's for TVs. Not only that but with the Ultra variant, all of the USB-C ports are thunderbolt 4 ports at 80gb/s, that's a massive amount of IO. (note that despite the number of ports - only 4 of them can be running displays, plus the HDMI port gets its own channel) On Max it's only 4 thunderbolt ports (and I would assume 2 displays + 1 HDMI since it's half of an Ultra) but still, that's about 2x anything else on the market.
- nicoburns 5y ago
  > Workstations don't really care about HDMI, that's for TVs. And people who only have HDMI cables! I was using display port on my old MacBook, but I'm using HDMI on the new one as I already had an HDMI cable, but not a USB-C to DisplayPort one.
  - msk-lywenn 5y ago
    I guess they thought that someone buying a 2000~5000$ machine wouldn't mind buying an extra 20$ video cable...
    - nicoburns 5y ago
      It's still useful to have at least one HDMI port. For things presenting at other people's offices, where you don't want to be carrying a cable or dongle around with you.
  - jdeibele 5y ago
    USB-C to DisplayPort cables are like $14 on Amazon. I'm responding to you using one. I have a MacBook Air in clamshell mode with 1 USB-C going to the display and a $10 hub that does Power Delivery and 3 USB-A ports for speakers, Yubikey, and external SSD for backup. I had a M1 Mac Mini but I do occasionally want to take a Mac with me so I replaced it with the Air. I only slightly miss the extra ports on the Mini.
  - httpsterio 5y ago

They did better with the limited space they have — they included a bunch of multi-functional USB-C ports that can be used with dongles for additional HDMI ports!

assttoasstmgr 5y ago

Are you referring to the front panel which is about 3.5" high x 7.7" wide and about 90% an empty blank face?

yupper32 5y ago

"With the limited space they have"? They chose how much space they had to work with...

dylan604 5y ago
Because nobody outside hardcore computer nerds wants a beige box tower with 14 drive bays sitting on their desk. People want quite little boxes that gets work done without having to have dedicated room for loud machines.
- assttoasstmgr 5y ago
  There is plenty of room for a second HDMI port (or mini DP) especially if they went to a vertical configuration for HDMI.
  - dylan604 5y ago
    So your opinion is that you want it. My opinion is I don't. HDMI is much more limiting. Say that you're a manufacturer trying to keep an eye towards wants new vs supporting what's old, what decisions do you make to support new and retro without increasing the costs? At some point, having backseat decision makers giving input results in the car designed by Homer. Of all of the things I've personally railed on Apple about in the past as well as others, their most recent HW offerings have been a great compromise. They've brought back some USB-A, SD card reader, HDMI, etc. They realized they've gone too far in certain areas, but some how they had a come to Jeebus meeting that reigned them back in.
    - assttoasstmgr 5y ago
      If there were two HDMI ports, how would that impact your one-HDMI world? It's clear from the comments others would find it useful. So that's a valid compromise. It's on the back of the unit so you wouldn't have to stare at that second unused port and shudder in disgust. > trying to keep an eye towards wants new vs supporting what's old No one is suggesting they trade anything away. Apple has settled on USB-C. But there's plenty of extra room on the rear panel. Your argument assumes benevolence on Apple's part. For all you know the chips support dual HDMI, they removed it to save money which ends up being pure profit because they didn't reduce the product price at all. Do you think adding a second HDMI would increase the arbitrary price from $2k to $2k plus $20? For the record, I would LOVE it if the Mac startup chime played "La Cucaracha"
      - chipotle_coyote 5y ago
        > For all you know the chips support dual HDMI Sure, but I don't think any Apple Silicon Mac has dual HDMI. While I guess it's possible that they spent the money to design dual HDMI support in their own chips and then said "but now that we've done this, we can save twenty bucks by not actually making the physical ports," but doesn't it seem likely that they also saved the money by…not putting it on the chip? > Do you think adding a second HDMI would increase the arbitrary price from $2k to $2k plus $20? Do you think anyone contemplating buying a computer that starts at $2K is going to suddenly stop, slap their forehead, and scream, "To connect two HDMI monitors, I'm going to have to buy a $15 USB-C to HDMI cable instead of a $6 HDMI cable! That extra $9 blows my budget! CURSE YOU, TIM COOK!" I mean, I get what you're saying, but this just seems like a weirdly tiny hill to die on. :) > For the record, I would LOVE it if the Mac startup chime played "La Cucaracha" Well, who wouldn't.
      - dylan604 5y ago
        You want a 2nd HDMI port, probably because you already own HDMI cables by the drawer full. That's a valid something. However, it's not like you have to replace your monitors because of only one HDMI port. There are cables that go from TB4 to HDMI without dongles. Yes, you would need a new something instead of the something you already have. Do you really know what the cost of adding a 2nd HDMI port to a system is? I do not. I do know it will be much more than the cost of the actual port connector itself. There's a new hole to be added to the case. There's more robotically soldered points to connect the new port to the system. Of the way the system is laid out on the board, is there enough bandwidth to supply signals to all of the ports? I have no idea the level of complexities involved in deciding what ports are available with the bandwidth of the system, but I do not for a second think that I could do it better.
  - ascagnel_ 5y ago
    Why miniDP? Just use the DisplayPort side channel that already exists in USB-C connectors; you can buy inexpensive USB-C-to-DP cables.
- intrasight 5y ago
  The advantage of a huge beige box ( mine is white actually) is that easy airflow and acoustic padding makes them pretty quiet. But yes huge. Mine is 24" x 20" x 10". And very heavy. Not on my desk.
  - Hamuko 5y ago
    Well, Apple claims that this little box will stay "whisper quiet" anyways. Also, I'm pretty excited to replace my big tower with this thing and finally get my computers off the floor.
- smoldesu 5y ago
  I don't think anyone besides hardcore computer nerds actually care what their computers look like. Lest we repeat the sins of The Trash Can Mac...
  - chaostheory 5y ago
    Funny you mention it, but this looks like the spiritual successor
    - dylan604 5y ago
      Once they mentioned circular power supply, I cringed like a bowl of petunias thinking "oh no, not again"
  - dylan604 5y ago
    For people with big clunky PC boxes, they stick it under a desk or on the floor because that's where it fits and it's out of sight. Because of the "sleek" design and smaller size, Apple has people convinced that the computer should be like children in the '50s--seen but not heard. If you offer someone a computer in the shape of the mac mini or this new studio design OR they could have a typical PC style box, I'm guessing the majority of people will choose the smaller box. Even if there are no Apple logos on the smaller box. Nobody wants a 30+lb box any more. As an editor, you can take this bad boy on the road with you without incurring overweight luggage fees at the airport.
    - pjmlp 5y ago
      The keyword being offer, as long as they don't have to pay for it.
- pjmlp 5y ago
  Given the amount of people using Apple desktop gear across the planet and beige box towers, I beg to differ.
  - dylan604 5y ago
    Beg all you want, but it won't change my mind. Just because someone uses something because it is all that is available does not mean they want it.
    - pjmlp 5y ago
      Some people still argue that the Earth is flat and Moon landing never happened, changing minds isn't easy anyway.
disillusioned 5y ago
This is Google with their new battery-powered Nest Doorbell explaining that it can't record 24/7 video _even when it's plugged in_ because "it's too thin and the thermals presented problems." MAKE IT THICKER. IT'S A GODDAMN DOORBELL. YOU CONTROL THE THICKNESS! THERE IS LITERALLY NO REQUIREMENT IT BE THAT THIN!
- martimarkov 5y ago
  I really hate this type of spam but I had to: <3 -- I really get so angry when these arguments are given so I feel your pain.
- duped 5y ago
  Buy a PoE sec camera instead, it's kind of wild to me that you'd expect a doorbell to do this. FWIW I do have a thickness requirement to install one on my door

paulmd 5y ago

USB-C (or Thunderbolt) can also carry a DisplayPort link natively, and you don't even need a dongle for that. Workstations don't really care about HDMI, that's for TVs. Not only that but with the Ultra variant, all of the USB-C ports are thunderbolt 4 ports at 80gb/s, that's a massive amount of IO. (note that despite the number of ports - only 4 of them can be running displays, plus the HDMI port gets its own channel) On Max it's only 4 thunderbolt ports (and I would assume 2 displays + 1 HDMI since it's half of an Ultra) but still, that's about 2x anything else on the market.

nicoburns 5y ago
> Workstations don't really care about HDMI, that's for TVs. And people who only have HDMI cables! I was using display port on my old MacBook, but I'm using HDMI on the new one as I already had an HDMI cable, but not a USB-C to DisplayPort one.
- msk-lywenn 5y ago
  I guess they thought that someone buying a 2000~5000$ machine wouldn't mind buying an extra 20$ video cable...
  - nicoburns 5y ago
    It's still useful to have at least one HDMI port. For things presenting at other people's offices, where you don't want to be carrying a cable or dongle around with you.
- jdeibele 5y ago
  USB-C to DisplayPort cables are like $14 on Amazon. I'm responding to you using one. I have a MacBook Air in clamshell mode with 1 USB-C going to the display and a $10 hub that does Power Delivery and 3 USB-A ports for speakers, Yubikey, and external SSD for backup. I had a M1 Mac Mini but I do occasionally want to take a Mac with me so I replaced it with the Air. I only slightly miss the extra ports on the Mini.
- httpsterio 5y ago