7 ms·

This seems like a win-win for them. Support the enemy of their enemy and get rid of hardware they can't really maintain any longer. Russia isn't going to be mai

This seems like a win-win for them. Support the enemy of their enemy and get rid of hardware they can't really maintain any longer. Russia isn't going to be maintaining those fighter jets now that it knows all of Europe considers it a hostile power. They need to buy fighters not dependent on Russia and the US is a logical place to turn to. The F-16 is likely to be well within their budget today, since they plan to purchase F-35s in the future anyways.

isbvhodnvemrwvn 5y ago
F-16 is the only other type of fighters that Poland has, but giving up on those MIGs will reduce the number of active fighters to just around 50, that's a nearly 30% reduction and fewer than Ukraine had before the war. Given the delays in F-16 deliveries to other NATO countries, it would likely take some time for replacement to come in.
- ilamont 5y ago
  The U.S. is selling F-16s that will shortly be delivered to Taiwan ... but those reportedly are not going to be diverted to Poland. https://focustaiwan.tw/politics/202203070023 https://focustaiwan.tw/politics/202203070023
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  The US has hundreds of F-16s mothballed in Arizona. I'd expect they're about to be busy reactivating a few dozen in the next couple of weeks.
  - isbvhodnvemrwvn 5y ago
    The question is if they can be given, all F-16 sold by the US were export models, not domestic.
    - ceejayoz 5y ago
      It's been done before. https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/bulgaria-to-receive-surplus-f-16s-from-us-ahead-of-block-70-delivery https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/bulgaria-to-r...
  - nicholasbraker 5y ago
    Poland uses Block 52 F-16's which aren't mothballed at AMARC (yet) Subtypes and blocks differ significantly including logistic pipelines, training etc. So simply grabbing a few from Davis-Monthan won't do the trick.
ceejayoz 5y ago
> The F-16 is likely to be well within their budget today They already own ~50, so that's a safe assumption. I'd suspect this trade involves free replacements from the US, too.
croes 5y ago
All of Europe? Serbia begs to differ.
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  https://www.axios.com/united-nations-ukraine-russia-141-55872481-a143-4423-9d3d-80450f01c754.html https://www.axios.com/united-nations-ukraine-russia-141-5587... > 141 countries vote to condemn Russia at UN > Between the lines: Serbia, which has close historical ties with Russia, surprised many observers by voting in favor of the resolution.
  - grujicd 5y ago
    But Serbian president said we won’t impose any sanctions toward Russia. On the other hand, our president is not to be trusted with anything.
    - stjohnswarts 5y ago
      As an American I can relate the same feeling with our previous President. He was a dumpster fire.
      - grujicd 5y ago
        On positive note, all other presidents in all other countries in the world suddenly looked more thoughtful and more reasonable while you had your 4 year show.
      - Ourgon 5y ago
        There's just that thing that had your previous president still been in charge we would most likely not be facing these problems right now. Most of your compatriots seem to agree with this statement [1], what do you think? Were the mean tweets a bigger danger to the world than what is waiting for us now? [1] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/feb/26/poll-trump-russia-ukraine-white-house https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/feb/26/poll-trump-r...
netsharc 5y ago
Poland has been in NATO for a long time, I wonder how they've been maintaining their fleet before Feb 24...
- akmarinov 5y ago
  Poland actually maintained them themselves and were sued by Russia for it.
pbreit 5y ago
What was this expected to accomplish beyond putting US in awkward position and further aggravating Putin? Why involve the US when that’s what triggered the war in the first place?
- alphabettsy 5y ago
  The US triggered the war? What is the alternative?
  - ralfn 5y ago
    I don't think Americans understand how Europeans are experiencing this attitude of appeasing. We have seen this story. It doesn't stop with Ukraine. We have drastically increased our defense spending but it will take at least 5 years for Europe to be able to take on Russia by itself (with enough dominance that it will not destroy everything). Russia on the other hand is also not ready. And with the sanctions they can't afford to become ready. Any American calling for appeasement or somehow suggesting this is all actually the US fault's. It's not at all. It's not about NATO, it's not about America. It's about Russia being run as an authoritarian imperialistic etno state. The true demand is: we govern you and you join our war against the west: economically, politically and militarily. You either speak Russian or you die. You either become the property of the FSB, the oliargs and Putin or you die. Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakie, Latvia, Finland.. they are all next in line. And they are not making a secret of this! The idea that there is anything but a full out war that will stop the Russians is ridiculous. We have no chill for more appeasement or supposed neutrality or diplomacy. You are not negotiating with a France or an America. You are negotiating with people who see any type of 'giving in' as weakness and encouragement to take more. We are not going to wait until the Russians our on our front doors as well. At this rate within the next decade Europe will be spending more on its defenses than the US. That may be a good thing. But please, Americans, understand, this is a loyalty check for Europe and a strenght check for all your enemies. Don't blink. When talking about Russia only growl. Everytime the US appeases, Russia is encouraged to do more violence, more aggression. The more clarity the US gives on when and how it will enter war, the less likely it is for the war to take place. And we really just need you guys to have the discpline for the next few years, and then we won't ever need US soldiers patrolling our borders, which seems fair and important (because there are more threats in this world than just the Russians!)
sofixa 5y ago
> get rid of hardware they can't really maintain any longer. Russia isn't going to be maintaining those fighter jets now that it knows all of Europe considers it a hostile power Poland has been quite successfully maintaining their MiGs, and even tried selling their services and hardware to other countries ( IIRC Croatia), and got sued by Russia for reverse engineering.

isbvhodnvemrwvn 5y ago

F-16 is the only other type of fighters that Poland has, but giving up on those MIGs will reduce the number of active fighters to just around 50, that's a nearly 30% reduction and fewer than Ukraine had before the war. Given the delays in F-16 deliveries to other NATO countries, it would likely take some time for replacement to come in.

ilamont 5y ago
The U.S. is selling F-16s that will shortly be delivered to Taiwan ... but those reportedly are not going to be diverted to Poland. https://focustaiwan.tw/politics/202203070023 https://focustaiwan.tw/politics/202203070023
ceejayoz 5y ago
The US has hundreds of F-16s mothballed in Arizona. I'd expect they're about to be busy reactivating a few dozen in the next couple of weeks.
- isbvhodnvemrwvn 5y ago
  The question is if they can be given, all F-16 sold by the US were export models, not domestic.
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    It's been done before. https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/bulgaria-to-receive-surplus-f-16s-from-us-ahead-of-block-70-delivery https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/bulgaria-to-r...
- nicholasbraker 5y ago
  Poland uses Block 52 F-16's which aren't mothballed at AMARC (yet) Subtypes and blocks differ significantly including logistic pipelines, training etc. So simply grabbing a few from Davis-Monthan won't do the trick.

ceejayoz 5y ago

> The F-16 is likely to be well within their budget today They already own ~50, so that's a safe assumption. I'd suspect this trade involves free replacements from the US, too.

croes 5y ago

All of Europe? Serbia begs to differ.

ceejayoz 5y ago
https://www.axios.com/united-nations-ukraine-russia-141-55872481-a143-4423-9d3d-80450f01c754.html https://www.axios.com/united-nations-ukraine-russia-141-5587... > 141 countries vote to condemn Russia at UN > Between the lines: Serbia, which has close historical ties with Russia, surprised many observers by voting in favor of the resolution.
- grujicd 5y ago
  But Serbian president said we won’t impose any sanctions toward Russia. On the other hand, our president is not to be trusted with anything.
  - stjohnswarts 5y ago
    As an American I can relate the same feeling with our previous President. He was a dumpster fire.
    - grujicd 5y ago
      On positive note, all other presidents in all other countries in the world suddenly looked more thoughtful and more reasonable while you had your 4 year show.
    - Ourgon 5y ago
      There's just that thing that had your previous president still been in charge we would most likely not be facing these problems right now. Most of your compatriots seem to agree with this statement [1], what do you think? Were the mean tweets a bigger danger to the world than what is waiting for us now? [1] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/feb/26/poll-trump-russia-ukraine-white-house https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/feb/26/poll-trump-r...

netsharc 5y ago

Poland has been in NATO for a long time, I wonder how they've been maintaining their fleet before Feb 24...

akmarinov 5y ago
Poland actually maintained them themselves and were sued by Russia for it.

pbreit 5y ago

What was this expected to accomplish beyond putting US in awkward position and further aggravating Putin? Why involve the US when that’s what triggered the war in the first place?

alphabettsy 5y ago
The US triggered the war? What is the alternative?
- ralfn 5y ago
  I don't think Americans understand how Europeans are experiencing this attitude of appeasing. We have seen this story. It doesn't stop with Ukraine. We have drastically increased our defense spending but it will take at least 5 years for Europe to be able to take on Russia by itself (with enough dominance that it will not destroy everything). Russia on the other hand is also not ready. And with the sanctions they can't afford to become ready. Any American calling for appeasement or somehow suggesting this is all actually the US fault's. It's not at all. It's not about NATO, it's not about America. It's about Russia being run as an authoritarian imperialistic etno state. The true demand is: we govern you and you join our war against the west: economically, politically and militarily. You either speak Russian or you die. You either become the property of the FSB, the oliargs and Putin or you die. Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakie, Latvia, Finland.. they are all next in line. And they are not making a secret of this! The idea that there is anything but a full out war that will stop the Russians is ridiculous. We have no chill for more appeasement or supposed neutrality or diplomacy. You are not negotiating with a France or an America. You are negotiating with people who see any type of 'giving in' as weakness and encouragement to take more. We are not going to wait until the Russians our on our front doors as well. At this rate within the next decade Europe will be spending more on its defenses than the US. That may be a good thing. But please, Americans, understand, this is a loyalty check for Europe and a strenght check for all your enemies. Don't blink. When talking about Russia only growl. Everytime the US appeases, Russia is encouraged to do more violence, more aggression. The more clarity the US gives on when and how it will enter war, the less likely it is for the war to take place. And we really just need you guys to have the discpline for the next few years, and then we won't ever need US soldiers patrolling our borders, which seems fair and important (because there are more threats in this world than just the Russians!)

sofixa 5y ago

> get rid of hardware they can't really maintain any longer. Russia isn't going to be maintaining those fighter jets now that it knows all of Europe considers it a hostile power Poland has been quite successfully maintaining their MiGs, and even tried selling their services and hardware to other countries ( IIRC Croatia), and got sued by Russia for reverse engineering.