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What are some examples of "propaganda" that proved to be false a day later?

by bostonsre 5y ago

imwillofficial 5y ago
Ghost of Kiev Snake Island Soldiers Dying Heroically Nuclear Reactor Shelled, Radiation Rising
- sillysaurusx 5y ago
  The nuclear reactor was shelled. I saw it live. Doubt it had anything to do with radiation though.
  - raverbashing 5y ago
    The increased radiation is from kicking up dust around Chernobyl Regardless of that it is incredibly stupid to do any kind of fighting around a nuclear plant.
    - justsomehnguy 5y ago
      > Regardless of that it is incredibly stupid to do any kind of fighting around a nuclear plant. That goes both ways. I saw the video from the start of the fighting and that was UA forces who started to fire upon oncoming forces from the building to the right on the video. If you mount defenses for something vital for the civilians of your country you should always question how exactly to do that to minimize the damage from the fighting. Given they took positions in the building, started the fight first, had a prerecorded video for Twitter of how they are under attack[0]... Sure, I'm just an arm-chair general, but for me it looks what the Ukrainian force decided to fight on the NPP territory and buildings. [0] go find it you if you didn't saw it. I doubt the first thing what would come to my mind as an operator of a NPP is to fire up a video for a social network.
      - prostoalex 5y ago
        > If you mount defenses for something vital for the civilians of your country In other words, never protect critical civilian infrastructure? Is that the defense playbook you'd propose?
        justsomehnguy 5y ago
        I assume you never even bothered to look at the map? [0] Like in your playbook there were absolutely no other options there. [0] https://www.google.com/maps/@47.5026803,34.5967556,6233m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en https://www.google.com/maps/@47.5026803,34.5967556,6233m/dat...
  - imwillofficial 5y ago
    It was not shelled, there was a small firefight involving a training building outside the reactor complex. Shelling means artillery. No artillery was involved. You did not “see the reactor get shelled live.”
    - sillysaurusx 5y ago
      Not only did the reactor get shelled, and not only did I see it live, but I was so amazed at the Russians’ stupidity that I took screenshots: https://imgur.com/a/6T7p9BD https://imgur.com/a/6T7p9BD Those gigantic streaks in the lower right are shells from tanks. They certainly aren’t tracers from rifles.
      - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
        Could you elaborate why or how you determined/believe that they are tank shots, for the rest of us?
        sillysaurusx 5y ago
        It’s easier to tell in video form. But basically you could see the shells come from the road in the distance (see the bridge?) all the way past the camera. The still frame probably makes it hard to see the scale. You’re right to press me for details on the “tank” part. I don’t know if the shots are from tanks. But they’re so large that it rules out foot soldiers, so it’s some kind of vehicle-mounted gun. It’s definitely not the kind of thing you want hitting a nuclear reactor.
        bewaretheirs 5y ago
        Could also be shots from weapons mounted on armored vehicles that aren't strictly speaking tanks. Ex-Soviet mechanized forces (both sides in this fight) field a bewildering array of tracked and wheeled vehicles that look more-or-less tank-like but aren't considered tanks because they are much more lightly armored. They're typically equipped with heavy weapons that are smaller or less powerful than tank main guns but larger than something that could readily be carried by a soldier or two. Tank misidentification satirized here: https://twitter.com/pascalheyman/status/1088555831187128321 https://twitter.com/pascalheyman/status/1088555831187128321
- awb 5y ago
  Were these reported by mainstream / reputable sources? I only saw them on social media. But I did see a source that radiation did rise around Chernobyl, probably due to dust getting kicked up by vehicles and foot traffic.
  - mattmanser 5y ago
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/25/ukraine-soldiers-told-russians-to-go-fuck-yourself-before-black-sea-island-death https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/25/ukraine-soldie... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/04/zaporizhzhia-nuclear-power-plant-everything-you-need-to-know https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/04/zaporizhzhia-n...
    - stefan_ 5y ago
      Still with the power plant? There was a live YouTube stream of Oleg from Vladivostok shelling at whatever. Do you think the guy making $50 a month to die for Putin knows what the hell he is shooting at?
      - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
        I am not sure if this makes it better or worse - that the army is full of imbecils in charge of deadly weapons, who have no idea how much danger they put everyone in.
- Navarr 5y ago
  Ghost of Kyiv hasn't been disproven yet; but there was a tiktok that circulated where the battle was "recreated" in a video game.
- munk-a 5y ago
  I think there's a serious issue in America with 24 hr news networks that feel compelled to shovel every bit of information they think they've got directly onto air unvetted so, personally, my main news source is an hourly show that's been doing a quick twenty minute run-down of news from the last day - preferring to discuss older information that has been more thoroughly vetted. I saw some memes about the Snake Island Soldiers but never heard serious reporting on their deaths - I only ever heard the location had been compromised. Maybe the issue isn't so much a propaganda mill forcing false facts but the news sources you're choosing to consume. Unless you have family/loved ones in Ukraine there is no reason to try and follow up-to-the minute news - watch the daily shows, read a newspaper or just be a bit more skeptical about what you're ingesting.
- krastanov 5y ago
  I think you are conflating media and social media. If any of these stories were picked by something like NYT, it would be "here are some examples of local stories going around to strengthen the morale", never as "truth". Actually, even reddit comments were generally "I know the Ghost is made up, it would be silly to believe it, but gosh, it is a good story". Moreover, the radiation in Chernobil did rise (measurably, but trivially). That has nothing to do with the active nuclear plant where actual fights happened.
  - rdiddly 5y ago
    The question was about propaganda, which happens on both social media and traditional media.
  - user3939382 5y ago
    > you are conflating media and social media https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/25/ukraine-soldiers-told-russians-to-go-fuck-yourself-before-black-sea-island-death https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/25/ukraine-soldie... https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-snake-island-soldiers-russia-confronttion-killed-audio-1682562 https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-snake-island-soldiers-russi... https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-soldiers-snake-island-russia-warship-b2023039.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-sold... https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/02/24/russia-ukraine-attack-news/#link-2ZAPVZZQOZCPJJADKC2SV4VJUE https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/02/24/russia-ukrai... I could go on, but you get the point. These were definitely fake stories propagated by the western media as part of their propaganda campaign against Russia. Even if these outlets didn't know they were fake, they also didn't bother to check.
    - krastanov 5y ago
      I stand corrected on half of a story (I am certainly surprised The Guardian did not make it more clear that they are citing Zelensky, the way WaPo did).
    - jjulius 5y ago
      Did you wanna include the part where outlets corrected themselves? Stories change - you do your best to verify, and then report the change once more information comes out. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/27/ukraine-island-defenders-who-told-russian-officer-go-fuck-yourself-may-still-be-alive https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/27/ukraine-island...
- NicoJuicy 5y ago
  Where did you see that? I read some Reddit and even there they mentioned eg. The ghost of Kiev is probably fake. Your other points are also ridiculous. No radiation was rising and there was huge protest against Russians to take the facility. There were definitely fires nearby. Reports of the nuclear facility ( video + sound) are pretty clear about what happened. They did mention it is very dangerous to attack a nuclear facility. I think that's pretty logical....
- JimBlackwood 5y ago
  For your third point I think you are mixing things up. Zaporizhzhia was shelled and afaik no increase in radiation was mentioned in any news I read. News also stressed that an office building was shelled, not the actual reactor. Chernobyl there were rumors about a nuclear waste depot being blown up and subsequent increase in radiation. However, it was always mentioned that this could be due to troop movement over contaminated soil and there were never worrying radiation numbers. Edit: I previously said the control room was on fire but can’t find a source anymore.
  - rurban 5y ago
    Only the reactors 5 and 6 were shut down, 1-4 not. I never heard that the control room was on fire, only that Chechens attached explosives to the reactors. The shelling was at the training reactor building, and the administrative building was shot at and set on fire.
    - JimBlackwood 5y ago
      You are correct, upon looking for a source I couldn’t find what I had seen earlier. Must have been wrong news :/
  - bewaretheirs 5y ago
    If the fighting had been a bit more intense at Zaporizhzhia, a repeat of Fukushima would not be out of the question (reactors shut down but not cold, unlucky shots take out backup power, cooling lost, meltdown from decay heat from fission products).
- selimthegrim 5y ago
  There is quite a bit of fear that SVR/FSB is going to fake a dirty bomb incident on UKR soil as a pretext for tactical nukes.
- bewaretheirs 5y ago
  Here's a video showing heavy weapons damage to elevated walkways connecting the reactor buildings, showing damage to what looks to me like wiring conduit running through the walkways. https://twitter.com/gbrumfiel/status/1499799810609668106 https://twitter.com/gbrumfiel/status/1499799810609668106 The focus of the fighting was elsewhere but some projectiles made it very close to the reactor buildings. Based on comparing the shot out the window with a look on Google Maps this is between units 2 and 3 of the 6 at the plant
- dzikimarian 5y ago
  Indeed Ghost of Kiev (if doesn't really exist) is crazy-evil propaganda, comparing to the Russians invading independent country and trying to sell it as "operation" against facism.
teaearlgraycold 5y ago
Not what you're asking about, but I'd classify the filtering for what people want to hear as propaganda. Why is so much of the news I see about Ukrainian battle victories while Russians are clearly advancing on multiple fronts? There could easily be more coverage of Russian victories than Ukrainian if we were shown a random sample of phone footage. I'm not complaining - these things have a tangible effect on morale. But it is propaganda.
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  Yeah, I ran into this and was was shocked to see information not just berried, but firewalled. I wanted to understand the situation and searched "Ukrainian troop locations" in google, bing, DDG, and Yahoo. One of the first times I have received no results in google. Absolutely blatant censorship. Ostensibly, google doesn't want to provide intel to Russia, who has ample satellites and combat reports. It seems a little too convenient that the major consequence is that Americans cant get any information that doesn't support the public narrative.
  - dzikimarian 5y ago
    Yeah, you also will not be able to find locations of any reputable military - that's basic security measure. I know Russian army does not set the bar very high though, so maybe you're not used to that.
    - s1artibartfast 5y ago
      yeah, apparently it is a security concern to utter the words anywhere on the internet, in any context. no "Ukrainian troop locations"... are well positioned, spread out, in the east, overwhelmed, shouldn't be disclosed, ect 0 hits containing the string.
      - dzikimarian 5y ago
        Yes it is? You can see similar instructions on hundred years old war-time posters.
breakingcups 5y ago
It took a little longer, but the mobile crematoria were stated as fact pretty early on.
- iso1210 5y ago
  https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/02/23/russia-deploys-mobile-crematorium-follow-troops-battle/?s=09 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/02/23/russia-dep... Who - UK Defence Secretary Ben Wallace makes a claim What - Russian forces have prepared a mobile crematorium for use in any future conflict with Ukraine Where - Ukraine Why - to avoid the problems with bringing bodies back When - Now There's no claim beyond that, however they do also highlight protests from Russia about missing and dead soldiers I haven't seen anything debunking such a claim, although I haven't seen anything backing it up either. It's a fact that Wallace made that claim, and the company involved refused to respond. The Snake Island incident is perhaps a better example. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60522454 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60522454 Which reports that Who - Ukraine officials say What - Russia killed their soldiers Where - Snake Island Why - to occupy the island When - Recently And they also say Who - Russian officials say Why - Soldiers surrendered it to them voluntarily Where - Snake Island Why - to occupy the island When - recently The BBC says the reported audio is unverified Later events showed that at least some of the soldiers were not killed.
drcode 5y ago
The incident with the nuclear reactors seemed to involve an administrative building, not the reacor(s) themselves (As far as I can tell, hard to determine the truth from my chair in the USA)
- oezi 5y ago
  It was reported from the beginning that the fire was in a training building and quickly stopped. The outrage was that it was close enough.

What are some examples of "propaganda" that proved to be false a day later?

imwillofficial 5y ago

Ghost of Kiev Snake Island Soldiers Dying Heroically Nuclear Reactor Shelled, Radiation Rising

sillysaurusx 5y ago
The nuclear reactor was shelled. I saw it live. Doubt it had anything to do with radiation though.
- raverbashing 5y ago
  The increased radiation is from kicking up dust around Chernobyl Regardless of that it is incredibly stupid to do any kind of fighting around a nuclear plant.
  - justsomehnguy 5y ago
    > Regardless of that it is incredibly stupid to do any kind of fighting around a nuclear plant. That goes both ways. I saw the video from the start of the fighting and that was UA forces who started to fire upon oncoming forces from the building to the right on the video. If you mount defenses for something vital for the civilians of your country you should always question how exactly to do that to minimize the damage from the fighting. Given they took positions in the building, started the fight first, had a prerecorded video for Twitter of how they are under attack[0]... Sure, I'm just an arm-chair general, but for me it looks what the Ukrainian force decided to fight on the NPP territory and buildings. [0] go find it you if you didn't saw it. I doubt the first thing what would come to my mind as an operator of a NPP is to fire up a video for a social network.
    - prostoalex 5y ago
      > If you mount defenses for something vital for the civilians of your country In other words, never protect critical civilian infrastructure? Is that the defense playbook you'd propose?
      - justsomehnguy 5y ago
        I assume you never even bothered to look at the map? [0] Like in your playbook there were absolutely no other options there. [0] https://www.google.com/maps/@47.5026803,34.5967556,6233m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en https://www.google.com/maps/@47.5026803,34.5967556,6233m/dat...
- imwillofficial 5y ago
  It was not shelled, there was a small firefight involving a training building outside the reactor complex. Shelling means artillery. No artillery was involved. You did not “see the reactor get shelled live.”
  - sillysaurusx 5y ago
    Not only did the reactor get shelled, and not only did I see it live, but I was so amazed at the Russians’ stupidity that I took screenshots: https://imgur.com/a/6T7p9BD https://imgur.com/a/6T7p9BD Those gigantic streaks in the lower right are shells from tanks. They certainly aren’t tracers from rifles.
    - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
      Could you elaborate why or how you determined/believe that they are tank shots, for the rest of us?
      - sillysaurusx 5y ago
        It’s easier to tell in video form. But basically you could see the shells come from the road in the distance (see the bridge?) all the way past the camera. The still frame probably makes it hard to see the scale. You’re right to press me for details on the “tank” part. I don’t know if the shots are from tanks. But they’re so large that it rules out foot soldiers, so it’s some kind of vehicle-mounted gun. It’s definitely not the kind of thing you want hitting a nuclear reactor.
        bewaretheirs 5y ago
        Could also be shots from weapons mounted on armored vehicles that aren't strictly speaking tanks. Ex-Soviet mechanized forces (both sides in this fight) field a bewildering array of tracked and wheeled vehicles that look more-or-less tank-like but aren't considered tanks because they are much more lightly armored. They're typically equipped with heavy weapons that are smaller or less powerful than tank main guns but larger than something that could readily be carried by a soldier or two. Tank misidentification satirized here: https://twitter.com/pascalheyman/status/1088555831187128321 https://twitter.com/pascalheyman/status/1088555831187128321
awb 5y ago
Were these reported by mainstream / reputable sources? I only saw them on social media. But I did see a source that radiation did rise around Chernobyl, probably due to dust getting kicked up by vehicles and foot traffic.
- mattmanser 5y ago
  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/25/ukraine-soldiers-told-russians-to-go-fuck-yourself-before-black-sea-island-death https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/25/ukraine-soldie... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/04/zaporizhzhia-nuclear-power-plant-everything-you-need-to-know https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/04/zaporizhzhia-n...
  - stefan_ 5y ago
    Still with the power plant? There was a live YouTube stream of Oleg from Vladivostok shelling at whatever. Do you think the guy making $50 a month to die for Putin knows what the hell he is shooting at?
    - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
      I am not sure if this makes it better or worse - that the army is full of imbecils in charge of deadly weapons, who have no idea how much danger they put everyone in.
Navarr 5y ago
Ghost of Kyiv hasn't been disproven yet; but there was a tiktok that circulated where the battle was "recreated" in a video game.
munk-a 5y ago
I think there's a serious issue in America with 24 hr news networks that feel compelled to shovel every bit of information they think they've got directly onto air unvetted so, personally, my main news source is an hourly show that's been doing a quick twenty minute run-down of news from the last day - preferring to discuss older information that has been more thoroughly vetted. I saw some memes about the Snake Island Soldiers but never heard serious reporting on their deaths - I only ever heard the location had been compromised. Maybe the issue isn't so much a propaganda mill forcing false facts but the news sources you're choosing to consume. Unless you have family/loved ones in Ukraine there is no reason to try and follow up-to-the minute news - watch the daily shows, read a newspaper or just be a bit more skeptical about what you're ingesting.
krastanov 5y ago
I think you are conflating media and social media. If any of these stories were picked by something like NYT, it would be "here are some examples of local stories going around to strengthen the morale", never as "truth". Actually, even reddit comments were generally "I know the Ghost is made up, it would be silly to believe it, but gosh, it is a good story". Moreover, the radiation in Chernobil did rise (measurably, but trivially). That has nothing to do with the active nuclear plant where actual fights happened.
- rdiddly 5y ago
  The question was about propaganda, which happens on both social media and traditional media.
- user3939382 5y ago
  > you are conflating media and social media https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/25/ukraine-soldiers-told-russians-to-go-fuck-yourself-before-black-sea-island-death https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/25/ukraine-soldie... https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-snake-island-soldiers-russia-confronttion-killed-audio-1682562 https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-snake-island-soldiers-russi... https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-soldiers-snake-island-russia-warship-b2023039.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-sold... https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/02/24/russia-ukraine-attack-news/#link-2ZAPVZZQOZCPJJADKC2SV4VJUE https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/02/24/russia-ukrai... I could go on, but you get the point. These were definitely fake stories propagated by the western media as part of their propaganda campaign against Russia. Even if these outlets didn't know they were fake, they also didn't bother to check.
  - krastanov 5y ago
    I stand corrected on half of a story (I am certainly surprised The Guardian did not make it more clear that they are citing Zelensky, the way WaPo did).
  - jjulius 5y ago
    Did you wanna include the part where outlets corrected themselves? Stories change - you do your best to verify, and then report the change once more information comes out. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/27/ukraine-island-defenders-who-told-russian-officer-go-fuck-yourself-may-still-be-alive https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/27/ukraine-island...
NicoJuicy 5y ago
Where did you see that? I read some Reddit and even there they mentioned eg. The ghost of Kiev is probably fake. Your other points are also ridiculous. No radiation was rising and there was huge protest against Russians to take the facility. There were definitely fires nearby. Reports of the nuclear facility ( video + sound) are pretty clear about what happened. They did mention it is very dangerous to attack a nuclear facility. I think that's pretty logical....
JimBlackwood 5y ago
For your third point I think you are mixing things up. Zaporizhzhia was shelled and afaik no increase in radiation was mentioned in any news I read. News also stressed that an office building was shelled, not the actual reactor. Chernobyl there were rumors about a nuclear waste depot being blown up and subsequent increase in radiation. However, it was always mentioned that this could be due to troop movement over contaminated soil and there were never worrying radiation numbers. Edit: I previously said the control room was on fire but can’t find a source anymore.
- rurban 5y ago
  Only the reactors 5 and 6 were shut down, 1-4 not. I never heard that the control room was on fire, only that Chechens attached explosives to the reactors. The shelling was at the training reactor building, and the administrative building was shot at and set on fire.
  - JimBlackwood 5y ago
    You are correct, upon looking for a source I couldn’t find what I had seen earlier. Must have been wrong news :/
- bewaretheirs 5y ago
  If the fighting had been a bit more intense at Zaporizhzhia, a repeat of Fukushima would not be out of the question (reactors shut down but not cold, unlucky shots take out backup power, cooling lost, meltdown from decay heat from fission products).
selimthegrim 5y ago
There is quite a bit of fear that SVR/FSB is going to fake a dirty bomb incident on UKR soil as a pretext for tactical nukes.
bewaretheirs 5y ago
Here's a video showing heavy weapons damage to elevated walkways connecting the reactor buildings, showing damage to what looks to me like wiring conduit running through the walkways. https://twitter.com/gbrumfiel/status/1499799810609668106 https://twitter.com/gbrumfiel/status/1499799810609668106 The focus of the fighting was elsewhere but some projectiles made it very close to the reactor buildings. Based on comparing the shot out the window with a look on Google Maps this is between units 2 and 3 of the 6 at the plant
dzikimarian 5y ago
Indeed Ghost of Kiev (if doesn't really exist) is crazy-evil propaganda, comparing to the Russians invading independent country and trying to sell it as "operation" against facism.

teaearlgraycold 5y ago

Not what you're asking about, but I'd classify the filtering for what people want to hear as propaganda. Why is so much of the news I see about Ukrainian battle victories while Russians are clearly advancing on multiple fronts? There could easily be more coverage of Russian victories than Ukrainian if we were shown a random sample of phone footage. I'm not complaining - these things have a tangible effect on morale. But it is propaganda.

s1artibartfast 5y ago
Yeah, I ran into this and was was shocked to see information not just berried, but firewalled. I wanted to understand the situation and searched "Ukrainian troop locations" in google, bing, DDG, and Yahoo. One of the first times I have received no results in google. Absolutely blatant censorship. Ostensibly, google doesn't want to provide intel to Russia, who has ample satellites and combat reports. It seems a little too convenient that the major consequence is that Americans cant get any information that doesn't support the public narrative.
- dzikimarian 5y ago
  Yeah, you also will not be able to find locations of any reputable military - that's basic security measure. I know Russian army does not set the bar very high though, so maybe you're not used to that.
  - s1artibartfast 5y ago
    yeah, apparently it is a security concern to utter the words anywhere on the internet, in any context. no "Ukrainian troop locations"... are well positioned, spread out, in the east, overwhelmed, shouldn't be disclosed, ect 0 hits containing the string.
    - dzikimarian 5y ago
      Yes it is? You can see similar instructions on hundred years old war-time posters.

breakingcups 5y ago

It took a little longer, but the mobile crematoria were stated as fact pretty early on.

iso1210 5y ago
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/02/23/russia-deploys-mobile-crematorium-follow-troops-battle/?s=09 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/02/23/russia-dep... Who - UK Defence Secretary Ben Wallace makes a claim What - Russian forces have prepared a mobile crematorium for use in any future conflict with Ukraine Where - Ukraine Why - to avoid the problems with bringing bodies back When - Now There's no claim beyond that, however they do also highlight protests from Russia about missing and dead soldiers I haven't seen anything debunking such a claim, although I haven't seen anything backing it up either. It's a fact that Wallace made that claim, and the company involved refused to respond. The Snake Island incident is perhaps a better example. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60522454 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60522454 Which reports that Who - Ukraine officials say What - Russia killed their soldiers Where - Snake Island Why - to occupy the island When - Recently And they also say Who - Russian officials say Why - Soldiers surrendered it to them voluntarily Where - Snake Island Why - to occupy the island When - recently The BBC says the reported audio is unverified Later events showed that at least some of the soldiers were not killed.

drcode 5y ago

The incident with the nuclear reactors seemed to involve an administrative building, not the reacor(s) themselves (As far as I can tell, hard to determine the truth from my chair in the USA)

oezi 5y ago
It was reported from the beginning that the fire was in a training building and quickly stopped. The outrage was that it was close enough.