7 ms·

That is grossly immoral if the software is paid for.

gremlinsinc 5y ago
Move out of an authoritarian dictatorship or demand your leaders stop killing innocent civilians as they try to escape during a ceasefire agreement, and end an illegal invasion that shouldn't even be a thing. Do immoral things, let your leaders do them in your name, and well live with the consequences of a failed country/state.
rosndo 5y ago
I guess you think that all sanctions against Russia are also “grossly immoral”, no? E: My reply to the now deleted child comment by “from” which suggested that the sanctions are pointless because they probably won’t result in regime change. But why do you think the sanctions are about causing regime change? That’d be nice, but nothing anybody is betting on. It’s all about discouraging such actions in the future.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
pmalynin 5y ago
If a country doesn’t want to operate within the confines of international law, does not honor international agreements, does not honor its word and commits war crimes — then the word “immoral” does not apply to any action taken to punish and stop the aggressor. You cannot have it both ways. Either you operate as a Western country, with western contract law, and resolve conflicts in international courts or you go back to 1914. This narrative of “oh my would you think of the innocent Russian people” is tiring. They’re all guilty, just like all of Germany was guilty in 1945.
- patrickaljord 5y ago
  > If a country doesn’t want to operate within the confines of international law, does not honor international agreements, does not honor its word and commits war crimes — then the word “immoral” does not apply to any action taken to punish and stop the aggressor. You cannot have it both ways. You've just described the USA for the past 100 years here. The level of double standard here is reaching levels I've never expected before.
  - michaelmrose 5y ago
    We are talking about the crime that is going on right now as we speak. Make your own submission on a century of bad behavior by America and discuss that there instead of diluting this one with whataboutism.
    - pessimizer 5y ago
      Alternative: let people discuss what they like.
    - rank0 5y ago
      Are you aware the US is facilitating the ongoing war in Yemen? It’s all about strategic interests. The US commits war crimes when it suits our agenda…just like the Russians. It’s kind of scary how much power the USG has over the world. We’ll destroy the economies of our adversaries with almost ZERO resistance. Using the term “whataboutism” doesn’t make OPs argument untrue. Nobody in the US actually gives a shit about the Ukraine. It’s purely a strategic interest. We’re using the country as a pawn in our global political game. It’s fucked. If we really cared about war crimes we wouldn’t constantly commit them. Why aren’t US citizens outraged by the horrific warfare that occurs on a daily basis in our world?
      - patrickaljord 5y ago
        Could not have put it better. Doubt you will get any answer though.
      - brabel 5y ago
        > It’s purely a strategic interest. The funny thing is that Ukraine is actually pretty low as far as american interests are concerned... That's why the USA will absolutely not fight in Ukraine, as it has said repeatedly before and after the war started. Which makes the whole reason for this conflict to have developed into a full scale war - Ukraine's prospect of joining NATO, causing Russia to feel itself existentially threatened as it couldn't defend itself against NATO if that happened - extremely futile. America would gain nothing by Ukraine joining NATO (assuming no desire to actually launch an attack on Russia), but Russia had a lot to lose as they absolutely expected NATO aggression (if we wanted them to believe we didn't mean to attack them, perhaps we shouldn't have continued to expand to their borders in the first place despite their extremely strongly worded protests?!).
- BitwiseFool 5y ago
  >"This narrative of “oh my would you think of the innocent Russian people” is tiring. They’re all guilty, just like all of Germany was guilty in 1945." People are worried because sentiments like yours enable hate. You've literally just carte-blanche declared all Russians guilty. Even the protestors? The newborn babies? Call me hyperbolic but you were the one who said "all". Do I even need to go on about why such absolutism can lead to tragedy?
  - pmalynin 5y ago
    >Do I even need to go on about why such absolutism can lead to tragedy? They think that I and my people shouldn't exist, that my country shouldn't exist. We already have a tragedy on our hands -- humanitarian crisis, my people being exterminated, etc. This is no time for equivocation, a vast majority (>70%) support Putin and be extension the war. And protesting does not absolve your guilt. Ukraine has been at war since 2014. War in Georgia was in 2008, so lets not mince words. They have supported this regime for decades.
    - unmole 5y ago
      > They think that I and my people shouldn't Who is they? Do you believe that Putin's regime is a democratic expression of the will of the Russian people? > my people being exterminated What the Ukrainian people are going through is absolutely horrible. But it is by no means an extermination. > They have supported this regime for decades. Ukraine were part of the Soviet Union for 7 decades. During this time, the Soviet Union invaded Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia and Afghanistan. I would still consider Ukrainians victims of the Soviet Union and not supporters.
      - pmalynin 5y ago
        I think I would know better about what my people are going through and what happened do them during Soviet Rule. They already did one genocide through Holodomor, so yes my people are being exterminated thanks for your expert opinion.
rlpb 5y ago
If economic sanctions, or even supplying arms to Ukraine to support them were considered moral, then I fail to see how merely remotely disabling software is suddenly immoral. At worst, it would merely be use of another type of weapon.
brimble 5y ago
I have some bad news about war, for you.
siskiyou 5y ago
It's no worse than sanctioning the banking industry. I'm all for it.

Move out of an authoritarian dictatorship or demand your leaders stop killing innocent civilians as they try to escape during a ceasefire agreement, and end an illegal invasion that shouldn't even be a thing. Do immoral things, let your leaders do them in your name, and well live with the consequences of a failed country/state.

rosndo 5y ago

I guess you think that all sanctions against Russia are also “grossly immoral”, no? E: My reply to the now deleted child comment by “from” which suggested that the sanctions are pointless because they probably won’t result in regime change. But why do you think the sanctions are about causing regime change? That’d be nice, but nothing anybody is betting on. It’s all about discouraging such actions in the future.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

pmalynin 5y ago

If a country doesn’t want to operate within the confines of international law, does not honor international agreements, does not honor its word and commits war crimes — then the word “immoral” does not apply to any action taken to punish and stop the aggressor. You cannot have it both ways. Either you operate as a Western country, with western contract law, and resolve conflicts in international courts or you go back to 1914. This narrative of “oh my would you think of the innocent Russian people” is tiring. They’re all guilty, just like all of Germany was guilty in 1945.

patrickaljord 5y ago
> If a country doesn’t want to operate within the confines of international law, does not honor international agreements, does not honor its word and commits war crimes — then the word “immoral” does not apply to any action taken to punish and stop the aggressor. You cannot have it both ways. You've just described the USA for the past 100 years here. The level of double standard here is reaching levels I've never expected before.
- michaelmrose 5y ago
  We are talking about the crime that is going on right now as we speak. Make your own submission on a century of bad behavior by America and discuss that there instead of diluting this one with whataboutism.
  - pessimizer 5y ago
    Alternative: let people discuss what they like.
  - rank0 5y ago
    Are you aware the US is facilitating the ongoing war in Yemen? It’s all about strategic interests. The US commits war crimes when it suits our agenda…just like the Russians. It’s kind of scary how much power the USG has over the world. We’ll destroy the economies of our adversaries with almost ZERO resistance. Using the term “whataboutism” doesn’t make OPs argument untrue. Nobody in the US actually gives a shit about the Ukraine. It’s purely a strategic interest. We’re using the country as a pawn in our global political game. It’s fucked. If we really cared about war crimes we wouldn’t constantly commit them. Why aren’t US citizens outraged by the horrific warfare that occurs on a daily basis in our world?
    - patrickaljord 5y ago
      Could not have put it better. Doubt you will get any answer though.
    - brabel 5y ago
      > It’s purely a strategic interest. The funny thing is that Ukraine is actually pretty low as far as american interests are concerned... That's why the USA will absolutely not fight in Ukraine, as it has said repeatedly before and after the war started. Which makes the whole reason for this conflict to have developed into a full scale war - Ukraine's prospect of joining NATO, causing Russia to feel itself existentially threatened as it couldn't defend itself against NATO if that happened - extremely futile. America would gain nothing by Ukraine joining NATO (assuming no desire to actually launch an attack on Russia), but Russia had a lot to lose as they absolutely expected NATO aggression (if we wanted them to believe we didn't mean to attack them, perhaps we shouldn't have continued to expand to their borders in the first place despite their extremely strongly worded protests?!).
BitwiseFool 5y ago
>"This narrative of “oh my would you think of the innocent Russian people” is tiring. They’re all guilty, just like all of Germany was guilty in 1945." People are worried because sentiments like yours enable hate. You've literally just carte-blanche declared all Russians guilty. Even the protestors? The newborn babies? Call me hyperbolic but you were the one who said "all". Do I even need to go on about why such absolutism can lead to tragedy?
- pmalynin 5y ago
  >Do I even need to go on about why such absolutism can lead to tragedy? They think that I and my people shouldn't exist, that my country shouldn't exist. We already have a tragedy on our hands -- humanitarian crisis, my people being exterminated, etc. This is no time for equivocation, a vast majority (>70%) support Putin and be extension the war. And protesting does not absolve your guilt. Ukraine has been at war since 2014. War in Georgia was in 2008, so lets not mince words. They have supported this regime for decades.
  - unmole 5y ago
    > They think that I and my people shouldn't Who is they? Do you believe that Putin's regime is a democratic expression of the will of the Russian people? > my people being exterminated What the Ukrainian people are going through is absolutely horrible. But it is by no means an extermination. > They have supported this regime for decades. Ukraine were part of the Soviet Union for 7 decades. During this time, the Soviet Union invaded Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia and Afghanistan. I would still consider Ukrainians victims of the Soviet Union and not supporters.
    - pmalynin 5y ago
      I think I would know better about what my people are going through and what happened do them during Soviet Rule. They already did one genocide through Holodomor, so yes my people are being exterminated thanks for your expert opinion.

rlpb 5y ago

If economic sanctions, or even supplying arms to Ukraine to support them were considered moral, then I fail to see how merely remotely disabling software is suddenly immoral. At worst, it would merely be use of another type of weapon.

brimble 5y ago

I have some bad news about war, for you.

siskiyou 5y ago

It's no worse than sanctioning the banking industry. I'm all for it.