5 ms·

The nongovernmental entities often benefit from the barbaric behavior. If the people of Russia don't stand up to the aggression of their own country then they w

by mrits 5y ago

The nongovernmental entities often benefit from the barbaric behavior. If the people of Russia don't stand up to the aggression of their own country then they will live with the consequences. It's not like they are getting butchered in their homes like their neighbors.

abecedarius 5y ago
Think about results. Does it help or hurt the Russian resisters when they (and the people they need to persuade) lose most access to the free world? Sanctioning state organs and oligarchs is good and overdue, but the mob extending that to canceling all of Russian civil society seems stupid and evil to me.
- keewee7 5y ago
  Red Hat stopping its commercial services in Russia will not harm dissenters. Besides the majority of Russians support the war. The so-called "resisters" are a rounding error. Listen to Ukrainians on social media. They're all calling for total sanctions against Russia.
- gremlinsinc 5y ago
  Yeah, a family of 4 evacuating and executed during a planned ceasefire in an agreed humanitarian corridor is the same level of sad as Russian citizens who don't even 'accept' there 'is' a 'war' not being able to play Minecraft. People are dying, many of these people are friends, relatives, and co-workers of people living in Russia. Many Russian soldiers are dying needlessly because one - ONE man is having a end-of-life mental break. One man's pride is the cause of all of this. Just one man. Period. One man. Blame Putin for Putin's war. If you don't like suffering for one man's tantrum -- call the Kremlin. I'm sure they'd love to hear your complaints.
  - type0 5y ago
    > Blame Putin for Putin's war. If you don't like suffering for one man's tantrum -- call the Kremlin. This reminds me how people in Soviet Union wrote letters to Stalin to describe injustices and how much they love him because he is the best possible leader they could have. Putin isn't Stalin yet, but the Russian people are waiting patiently for him to become one.
- gbear605 5y ago
  What I’ve heard from Russian resisters is that they support these moves because it radicalizes the people.
- jquery 5y ago
  At a certain point we need to worry less about Russia's opinion regarding anything, and more about defanging them as a power in the world capable of projecting force until their leader is no longer a power-mad tyrant. Technology sanctions absolutely help us accomplish this goal.
simiones 5y ago
Do you support the same sanctions for the population of all NATO countries after the illegal invasions of Afghanistan, Irak, Yugoslavia? For their support of allied invasions in Yemen, Palestine, etc.? I know my country (Romania) directly participated in these other horrible wars, but as a child at the time, I don't feel too directly responsible for not doing more to stop the warmongering of my leaders. In fact, the sanctions should be even worse by your logic, since the people had much more power to prevent these wars, unlike the people of Russia. Of course what Russia is doing is unacceptable, but it's hardly alone in the world in this type of behavior. Rather than getting on your high horse and condemning the people of Russia, it's better to send help to the people of Ukraine who are suffering in this brutal war, and maybe as well to the people of Yemen and Palestine and other invaded places. Also, see if you can lobby your leaders to advance negotiations for treaties to dismantle all nukes - a major weapon that enabled Russia to bully its neighbors.
- jquery 5y ago
  It's difficult to take your comment seriously when you start off with a falsehood. Afghanistan was not an illegal invasion, they were the aggressor country. To equivocate ukraine with afghanistan is to support Putin's invasion.
  - gunfighthacksaw 5y ago
    Yugoslavia/Kosovo was illegal, Afghanistan was justified, Iraq was based on a tissue of lies.
    - brandmeyer 5y ago
      The intervention in Yugoslavia was possibly most well-justified military campaign in my lifetime, even more-so than the liberation of Kuwait.
      - gunfighthacksaw 5y ago
        It was still illegal, if well justified. So illegal that Russia and Serbia have been pissed off about it for over 20 years.
cmurf 5y ago
Even if all of that is true, it is still also true that turning Russia into a massively nuclear armed version of North Korea is bad for the world. Eventually the Russians who remain are going to get slowly butchered in their homes. There is significant risk of Russians blaming the West if NATO gets involved. Navalny's organization did a survey of Moscow's internet users, and nearly half think Russia is liberating Ukraine. It strongly suggests the vast majority of Russians do not see this as them having started an aggressive war. https://mobile.twitter.com/PopovaProf/status/1501053684209557506 https://mobile.twitter.com/PopovaProf/status/150105368420955... The nation-state system tends toward distributed blame (to the nationals) even when there isn't distribution of power (autocracy). For once, most of the world is blaming the autocrat rather than the nation. That's an improvement.

by mrits 5y ago

abecedarius 5y ago

Think about results. Does it help or hurt the Russian resisters when they (and the people they need to persuade) lose most access to the free world? Sanctioning state organs and oligarchs is good and overdue, but the mob extending that to canceling all of Russian civil society seems stupid and evil to me.

keewee7 5y ago
Red Hat stopping its commercial services in Russia will not harm dissenters. Besides the majority of Russians support the war. The so-called "resisters" are a rounding error. Listen to Ukrainians on social media. They're all calling for total sanctions against Russia.
gremlinsinc 5y ago
Yeah, a family of 4 evacuating and executed during a planned ceasefire in an agreed humanitarian corridor is the same level of sad as Russian citizens who don't even 'accept' there 'is' a 'war' not being able to play Minecraft. People are dying, many of these people are friends, relatives, and co-workers of people living in Russia. Many Russian soldiers are dying needlessly because one - ONE man is having a end-of-life mental break. One man's pride is the cause of all of this. Just one man. Period. One man. Blame Putin for Putin's war. If you don't like suffering for one man's tantrum -- call the Kremlin. I'm sure they'd love to hear your complaints.
- type0 5y ago
  > Blame Putin for Putin's war. If you don't like suffering for one man's tantrum -- call the Kremlin. This reminds me how people in Soviet Union wrote letters to Stalin to describe injustices and how much they love him because he is the best possible leader they could have. Putin isn't Stalin yet, but the Russian people are waiting patiently for him to become one.
gbear605 5y ago
What I’ve heard from Russian resisters is that they support these moves because it radicalizes the people.
jquery 5y ago
At a certain point we need to worry less about Russia's opinion regarding anything, and more about defanging them as a power in the world capable of projecting force until their leader is no longer a power-mad tyrant. Technology sanctions absolutely help us accomplish this goal.

simiones 5y ago

Do you support the same sanctions for the population of all NATO countries after the illegal invasions of Afghanistan, Irak, Yugoslavia? For their support of allied invasions in Yemen, Palestine, etc.? I know my country (Romania) directly participated in these other horrible wars, but as a child at the time, I don't feel too directly responsible for not doing more to stop the warmongering of my leaders. In fact, the sanctions should be even worse by your logic, since the people had much more power to prevent these wars, unlike the people of Russia. Of course what Russia is doing is unacceptable, but it's hardly alone in the world in this type of behavior. Rather than getting on your high horse and condemning the people of Russia, it's better to send help to the people of Ukraine who are suffering in this brutal war, and maybe as well to the people of Yemen and Palestine and other invaded places. Also, see if you can lobby your leaders to advance negotiations for treaties to dismantle all nukes - a major weapon that enabled Russia to bully its neighbors.

jquery 5y ago
It's difficult to take your comment seriously when you start off with a falsehood. Afghanistan was not an illegal invasion, they were the aggressor country. To equivocate ukraine with afghanistan is to support Putin's invasion.
- gunfighthacksaw 5y ago
  Yugoslavia/Kosovo was illegal, Afghanistan was justified, Iraq was based on a tissue of lies.
  - brandmeyer 5y ago
    The intervention in Yugoslavia was possibly most well-justified military campaign in my lifetime, even more-so than the liberation of Kuwait.
    - gunfighthacksaw 5y ago
      It was still illegal, if well justified. So illegal that Russia and Serbia have been pissed off about it for over 20 years.

cmurf 5y ago

Even if all of that is true, it is still also true that turning Russia into a massively nuclear armed version of North Korea is bad for the world. Eventually the Russians who remain are going to get slowly butchered in their homes. There is significant risk of Russians blaming the West if NATO gets involved. Navalny's organization did a survey of Moscow's internet users, and nearly half think Russia is liberating Ukraine. It strongly suggests the vast majority of Russians do not see this as them having started an aggressive war. https://mobile.twitter.com/PopovaProf/status/1501053684209557506 https://mobile.twitter.com/PopovaProf/status/150105368420955... The nation-state system tends toward distributed blame (to the nationals) even when there isn't distribution of power (autocracy). For once, most of the world is blaming the autocrat rather than the nation. That's an improvement.