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The West has become an incompetent, incomprehensibly stupid bully with a gigantic hammer it calls "market theory". It doesn't so much identify and nullify threa

The West has become an incompetent, incomprehensibly stupid bully with a gigantic hammer it calls "market theory". It doesn't so much identify and nullify threats so much as it generates market opinion to blindly hate and blacklist anything not considered "good". I'm scared of not having a Ukraine flag in my Twitter handle - despite being Polish and supporting Ukranians in the actual conflict - because I'm scared of the zealot Westerners who might try to pillory me for holding unsavory opinions that go against the current marketable beliefs. I understand how the West is responding and it's not productive, nor is it a "let's wait and see" kind of strategy. This is the same weapon they've been using on everyone else for the past decade. Race, sex, belief, now nationality. It's about turning everything into a market that they control, and we know how people targeted by it react to it. They go cold, MAGA, embrace the antithetical - maybe they even start dropping nukes. When the current round of Western propaganda fades away, who will Russians blame? Only the ones swallowing it on Twitter will blame Putin. So once that's gone this becomes a huge problem for us. The plan is to have the propaganda never end. More people now live their lives through the lens of the internet (or internet-first mentality), who have swallowed enough of the insanity that it's no longer a set of sponsored opinions but "reality". It's clear now that the West completely dominates all propaganda on the internet - I barely see any of the Russian stuff. The Russians can't even get a word out, and I'm wondering who the censors are trying to protect. I highly doubt it's us. What I'm seeing here is the new Western approach to politics in the 21st century. Reality manufacturing and blacklisting, supported by relentless propaganda. The market does the state's dirty work now, and it's constantly hungry for its master's approval, like a big dumb ogre. The only way to stop the Russian aggression is to negotiate with their government. Not put Russians into camps, metaphorical or otherwise. EDIT: If you think I'm wrong, then consider the possible influences. Does doing this push Russia to end the invasion, or does it push them to continue it? Does this help us align ourselves with reality and face it, or does it blind us? Is this likely to make the Russians more willing to become allies, or less willing? etc. etc.

tharne 5y ago
> The plan is to have the propaganda never end. It's quite scary. While I support the Ukraine, I'm shocked with how little media discussion there is about American hypocrisy on this topic. This certainly in no way excuses Putin's actions, but it's quite amazing how our elected officials can stand there straight-faced shaking their finger in disapproval at Putin after the number of countries we've invaded in my lifetime alone. Good God, I can't even imagine what we'd do if we got into a conflict with Mexico and the Russians we sending them weapons. Oh wait, that happened with Cuba in the 1960's and we threatened to wipe the Soviet Union off the map with nuclear weapons.
- rini17 5y ago
  Sure Americans did invade countries and kill civilians and now they act hypocritically.. but on the other side, are there any examples even remotely approaching the hamfisted Russian manners in Chechnya, Syria and Ukraine? Perhaps Israel toward Palestinians but we're talking about USA here.
  - Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
    Regarding Chechnya, I want to remind you that you are talking about an insurgency that was very used to commit terror attacks on civilians and take hostages to negotiate their terms. Including hundreds of children. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budyonnovsk_hospital_hostage_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budyonnovsk_hospital_hostage_c... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kizlyar%E2%80%93Pervomayskoye_hostage_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kizlyar%E2%80%93Pervomayskoye_... [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis [4]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_siege https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_siege
    - rini17 5y ago
      So you say leveling whole cities with ground like Grozny is the right response here?
      - Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
        I am not saying that. What you use is a classical demagogue trick called "strawman fallacy".
        rini17 5y ago
        Yes. I am talking about civilian casualties, you strawmanning with insurgents. Or why did you mention them, what is your reasoning? "They killed hundred our children so we kill thousand of theirs?"
nsv 5y ago
>The only way to stop the Russian aggression is to negotiate with their government. And get sent to prison? There is no negotiation in a country without free speech.
- prohobo 5y ago
  I meant that the Western powers should negotiate with Putin.
  - lolinder 5y ago
    We tried that for months in the leadup to the invasion. If Putin wanted to negotiate, he should have negotiated. Instead he played for time by deliberately making demands he knew we couldn't meet. Why should we assume, after that show, that he'll be reasonable now?
    - prohobo 5y ago
      You always try to negotiate with your enemy, even while shooting at them. It's just a law for succeeding in ending conflict. The Russians have changed their demands since the conflict started, here they are currently: https://twitter.com/BlessedCloudz/status/1501095011584077826 https://twitter.com/BlessedCloudz/status/1501095011584077826
      - fineIllregister 5y ago
        The Ukranian alliance is negotiating, per your own link. That Russian negotiating position is not serious. No nation will recognize any concession inconsistent with Ukraine's sovereignty (all three demands are), nor should they. Russia has no leverage to achieve any of those goals, and the longer it goes on, the less they have.
9wzYQbTYsAIc 5y ago
> The West has become an incompetent, incomprehensibly stupid bully with a gigantic hammer it calls "market theory". It doesn't so much identify and nullify threats so much as it generates market opinion to blindly hate and blacklist anything not considered "good". Ain’t that the truth.

tharne 5y ago

> The plan is to have the propaganda never end. It's quite scary. While I support the Ukraine, I'm shocked with how little media discussion there is about American hypocrisy on this topic. This certainly in no way excuses Putin's actions, but it's quite amazing how our elected officials can stand there straight-faced shaking their finger in disapproval at Putin after the number of countries we've invaded in my lifetime alone. Good God, I can't even imagine what we'd do if we got into a conflict with Mexico and the Russians we sending them weapons. Oh wait, that happened with Cuba in the 1960's and we threatened to wipe the Soviet Union off the map with nuclear weapons.

rini17 5y ago
Sure Americans did invade countries and kill civilians and now they act hypocritically.. but on the other side, are there any examples even remotely approaching the hamfisted Russian manners in Chechnya, Syria and Ukraine? Perhaps Israel toward Palestinians but we're talking about USA here.
- Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
  Regarding Chechnya, I want to remind you that you are talking about an insurgency that was very used to commit terror attacks on civilians and take hostages to negotiate their terms. Including hundreds of children. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budyonnovsk_hospital_hostage_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budyonnovsk_hospital_hostage_c... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kizlyar%E2%80%93Pervomayskoye_hostage_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kizlyar%E2%80%93Pervomayskoye_... [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis [4]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_siege https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_siege
  - rini17 5y ago
    So you say leveling whole cities with ground like Grozny is the right response here?
    - Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
      I am not saying that. What you use is a classical demagogue trick called "strawman fallacy".
      - rini17 5y ago
        Yes. I am talking about civilian casualties, you strawmanning with insurgents. Or why did you mention them, what is your reasoning? "They killed hundred our children so we kill thousand of theirs?"

nsv 5y ago

>The only way to stop the Russian aggression is to negotiate with their government. And get sent to prison? There is no negotiation in a country without free speech.

prohobo 5y ago
I meant that the Western powers should negotiate with Putin.
- lolinder 5y ago
  We tried that for months in the leadup to the invasion. If Putin wanted to negotiate, he should have negotiated. Instead he played for time by deliberately making demands he knew we couldn't meet. Why should we assume, after that show, that he'll be reasonable now?
  - prohobo 5y ago
    You always try to negotiate with your enemy, even while shooting at them. It's just a law for succeeding in ending conflict. The Russians have changed their demands since the conflict started, here they are currently: https://twitter.com/BlessedCloudz/status/1501095011584077826 https://twitter.com/BlessedCloudz/status/1501095011584077826
    - fineIllregister 5y ago
      The Ukranian alliance is negotiating, per your own link. That Russian negotiating position is not serious. No nation will recognize any concession inconsistent with Ukraine's sovereignty (all three demands are), nor should they. Russia has no leverage to achieve any of those goals, and the longer it goes on, the less they have.

9wzYQbTYsAIc 5y ago

> The West has become an incompetent, incomprehensibly stupid bully with a gigantic hammer it calls "market theory". It doesn't so much identify and nullify threats so much as it generates market opinion to blindly hate and blacklist anything not considered "good". Ain’t that the truth.