4 ms·

Guetzli vs. MozJPEG

32 points by luu 5y ago

kevmoo1 5y ago
FYI: Guetzli seems to have not been touched in ~5 years. See https://github.com/google/guetzli/tree/master/guetzli https://github.com/google/guetzli/tree/master/guetzli
- Seirdy 5y ago
  It evolved into Butteraugli which was incorporated into libjxl, which powers the reference JPEG-XL encoder. It also optionally powers libaom's encoding, which is in turn used by libavif and libwebp2 (for the WIP WebP2 image format).
samch93 5y ago
Guetzli means cookie in Swiss German, I wonder what inspired the devs to choose that name
- mobilio 5y ago
  Other compression algo is Brotli (or brötli). Also popular Swiss pastry.
  - nneonneo 5y ago
    Brotli, Zopfli, Guetzli, Butteraugli, ... Google's Zurich branch uses this particular naming scheme for their compression research projects.
    - theandrewbailey 5y ago
      What other swiss foods ending in *li can we expect them to name future compression algorithms?
      - dataflow 5y ago
        I'm guessing Gipfeli
        twotwotwo 5y ago
        It exists! https://github.com/google/gipfeli https://github.com/google/gipfeli It was aiming for better compression than LZ4 at much higher speeds than deflate. Now brotli and zstd on their faster settings mostly beat it in that niche.
        dataflow 5y ago
        Wow haha, that is amazing. Thanks for the find!
      - 4ggr0 5y ago
        Weggli(Small bread tasting a bit like a Zopf), Hörnli(The kind of pasta americans use to make Mac n Cheese), Mütschli(Small bread which is a bit harder than a Weggli), Schnitteli(Piece of bread with jam or honey etc.), Schöggeli(Small chocolate), etc... Basically you can add -li to almost any word in swiss german and there are lots of words already which end with -li. It's a way to make a word sound "cute". As an example, "Auto" means car, but if we call it "Autöli" it means that it's either a toy car or just a little(,cute) car :)
jsnell 5y ago
(2017) This doesn't seem like a very good benchmark. First, they appear to be recompressing jpgs rather than starting from the original input image, which seems incompatible with the idea of a compressor that spends the time budget where it does the most good. The places where the high quality is needed the most have already been compromised by the original jpg compression. Second, they're only considering the output size but not the output quality. Sure, they're all using "quality 90". But why do we think that "quality 90" means the same visual quality across all these compressors? (And what visual quality metric would it be constant for?)
patrakov 5y ago
The benchmark doesn't make sense at all. The encoders under the test were set to the same JPEG quality numbers, but this is a completely meaningless metric, and JPEG quantization matrices were not even examined to ensure that the quality is objectively comparable. See my blog post from 2008 regarding this very issue: https://patrakov.blogspot.com/2008/12/jpeg-quality-is-meaningless-number.html https://patrakov.blogspot.com/2008/12/jpeg-quality-is-meanin...
g8oz 5y ago
To me the images produced by Guetzli feel "off", like I'm being tricked into perceiving a higher quality. Maybe this is what is meant by "perceptual psycho-visual encoding".
deutschew 5y ago
offtopic question but can this be used to compress base64 images?
- stereo 5y ago
  Yes! Decode the base64, run through mozjpeg, re-encode. For PNGs, I've had the best results on average with pngwolf-zopfli: https://github.com/jibsen/pngwolf-zopfli https://github.com/jibsen/pngwolf-zopfli
  - deutschew 5y ago
    off topic but has anybody turned a series of compressed base64 into a video stream?
svnpenn 5y ago
Fuck that site. It has autoplaying sound, and a popup that you can't close.
- seritools 5y ago
  Also a custom scrolling implementation that scrolls a longer distance than normal, and forces a scrolling animation, absolutely horrible.
ksec 5y ago
You know. I was actually quite annoyed ( to say the least ) with the post. For one the post is lacking a date, and you have to search yourself it was published in April 2017. And without a date the article is completely lacking context because Guetzli [1] hasn't been worked on for 5 years. And as [2] mentioned its work and derivative was ultimately merged into JPEG XL, which is a very decent image format. ( People should definitely check out JPEG XL if it is not on your radar yet ) But then I notice it was Dan luu who submitted it, which likely means there must be something much deeper than is what is shown on the surface. So what is the context here ? [1] https://github.com/google/guetzli https://github.com/google/guetzli [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30622303 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30622303

32 points by luu 5y ago

FYI: Guetzli seems to have not been touched in ~5 years. See https://github.com/google/guetzli/tree/master/guetzli https://github.com/google/guetzli/tree/master/guetzli

Seirdy 5y ago
It evolved into Butteraugli which was incorporated into libjxl, which powers the reference JPEG-XL encoder. It also optionally powers libaom's encoding, which is in turn used by libavif and libwebp2 (for the WIP WebP2 image format).

samch93 5y ago

Guetzli means cookie in Swiss German, I wonder what inspired the devs to choose that name

mobilio 5y ago
Other compression algo is Brotli (or brötli). Also popular Swiss pastry.
- nneonneo 5y ago
  Brotli, Zopfli, Guetzli, Butteraugli, ... Google's Zurich branch uses this particular naming scheme for their compression research projects.
  - theandrewbailey 5y ago
    What other swiss foods ending in *li can we expect them to name future compression algorithms?
    - dataflow 5y ago
      I'm guessing Gipfeli
      - twotwotwo 5y ago
        It exists! https://github.com/google/gipfeli https://github.com/google/gipfeli It was aiming for better compression than LZ4 at much higher speeds than deflate. Now brotli and zstd on their faster settings mostly beat it in that niche.
        dataflow 5y ago
        Wow haha, that is amazing. Thanks for the find!
    - 4ggr0 5y ago
      Weggli(Small bread tasting a bit like a Zopf), Hörnli(The kind of pasta americans use to make Mac n Cheese), Mütschli(Small bread which is a bit harder than a Weggli), Schnitteli(Piece of bread with jam or honey etc.), Schöggeli(Small chocolate), etc... Basically you can add -li to almost any word in swiss german and there are lots of words already which end with -li. It's a way to make a word sound "cute". As an example, "Auto" means car, but if we call it "Autöli" it means that it's either a toy car or just a little(,cute) car :)

jsnell 5y ago

(2017) This doesn't seem like a very good benchmark. First, they appear to be recompressing jpgs rather than starting from the original input image, which seems incompatible with the idea of a compressor that spends the time budget where it does the most good. The places where the high quality is needed the most have already been compromised by the original jpg compression. Second, they're only considering the output size but not the output quality. Sure, they're all using "quality 90". But why do we think that "quality 90" means the same visual quality across all these compressors? (And what visual quality metric would it be constant for?)

patrakov 5y ago

The benchmark doesn't make sense at all. The encoders under the test were set to the same JPEG quality numbers, but this is a completely meaningless metric, and JPEG quantization matrices were not even examined to ensure that the quality is objectively comparable. See my blog post from 2008 regarding this very issue: https://patrakov.blogspot.com/2008/12/jpeg-quality-is-meaningless-number.html https://patrakov.blogspot.com/2008/12/jpeg-quality-is-meanin...

g8oz 5y ago

To me the images produced by Guetzli feel "off", like I'm being tricked into perceiving a higher quality. Maybe this is what is meant by "perceptual psycho-visual encoding".

deutschew 5y ago

offtopic question but can this be used to compress base64 images?

stereo 5y ago
Yes! Decode the base64, run through mozjpeg, re-encode. For PNGs, I've had the best results on average with pngwolf-zopfli: https://github.com/jibsen/pngwolf-zopfli https://github.com/jibsen/pngwolf-zopfli
- deutschew 5y ago
  off topic but has anybody turned a series of compressed base64 into a video stream?

svnpenn 5y ago

Fuck that site. It has autoplaying sound, and a popup that you can't close.

seritools 5y ago
Also a custom scrolling implementation that scrolls a longer distance than normal, and forces a scrolling animation, absolutely horrible.

ksec 5y ago

You know. I was actually quite annoyed ( to say the least ) with the post. For one the post is lacking a date, and you have to search yourself it was published in April 2017. And without a date the article is completely lacking context because Guetzli [1] hasn't been worked on for 5 years. And as [2] mentioned its work and derivative was ultimately merged into JPEG XL, which is a very decent image format. ( People should definitely check out JPEG XL if it is not on your radar yet ) But then I notice it was Dan luu who submitted it, which likely means there must be something much deeper than is what is shown on the surface. So what is the context here ? [1] https://github.com/google/guetzli https://github.com/google/guetzli [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30622303 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30622303