7 ms·

The point is not to convince them. The point is to: * create noise in the telephone logbook to annoy the FSB. * create distrust toward the FSB. This would be

by malka 5y ago

The point is not to convince them. The point is to: * create noise in the telephone logbook to annoy the FSB. * create distrust toward the FSB. This would be the result of people getting arrested for receiving phone calls from the US.

WinterMount223 5y ago
Are you okay with getting individuals possibly arrested in the name of a purported common good? You are no better than the FSB itself then.
- malka 5y ago
  We are at war. > You are no better than the FSB itself then. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  - lofatdairy 5y ago
    To be honest I find the notion of "We" here to be rather dubious. Russia and Ukraine are at war, and while us private citizens of the broader English-speaking world can condemn one side, and support the other, pushing others towards the belief that this is somehow a total war and that every action is justifiable seems patently false.
    - malka 5y ago
      Russia has been pushing far right, and attempt to disrupt politics in my country for years. They have gotten Schroder on their payroll so he would sabotage german and Europe energy. Now, they have been threatening western Europe with nukes. Yes, we are clearly at war with Russia.
      - jl6 5y ago
        Words mean something. We are not at war with Russia.
        frenchy 5y ago
        malka is probalby using "we" as an exclusive first person plural pronoun. In English, "we" doesn't always include "you".
      - lofatdairy 5y ago
        I don't mean any offense, but I think it's somewhat fascinating that the idea of total war seems assumed by both your comment and the original post. Even if the US and Russia were at war, the notion that private citizens were not just involved, but obligated to contribute seems to be a remnant of the world wars. What's interesting to me is that this notion seems to have disappeared, since to my knowledge there wasn't such an expectation with Vietnam and Korea (though maybe we can argue that the witch hunt for communists was something of a continuation). Maybe it's due to the positioning of Russia as an existential threat? It just reminds me of the whole freedom fries vs french fries thing and the idea that there isn't a separation between geopolitics and domestic politics.
        malka 5y ago
        I live in Europe, I am french to be more precise. I feel Russia as an existential threat right now.
        lofatdairy 5y ago
        Right, and I'm not saying you're wrong for feeling that way, nor am I saying that Russia isn't an existential threat. But, at the risk of over-intellectualizing the situation, I think it's worth noting that for some reason, this Ukraine-Russia conflict has brought out feelings that citizens should be prepared to fight for their country. This, at least from an American perspective, seems to be a sentiment that comes and goes, but has only appeared in very few cases in our past. I cannot speak for the French in this case, but in general I think it's worth pointing out because you'd expect military conflicts to be resolved between militaries and their respective states - this social contract being something of the foundational idea to Western politics.
    - ssk169 5y ago
      Thinking that this is just between Russia and Ukraine is such a common mistake. Ukraine is the latest move in a larger chess game (remember Transnistria, Georgia, Bellarus?) where the end goal of Russian is a new world order. Instead of the current order based on western values and laws, Russia wants the so called "uni-polar world" to change such that it has it's own sphere of influence. That sphere would consist of weak countries subjected either politically, economically or militarily. It sees those as buffer states... and there are never enough of those.
  - lenkite 5y ago
    Who is "we" here ?
- byoffor88 5y ago
- xwdv 5y ago
  Yes, we’re at war. The rules have changed.
  - fourseventy 5y ago
    If we are at "war" right now, then what is it called when US troops roll tanks into Russia... "super war"? Words have definitions. The definition of war is "a state of armed conflict between different nations or states or different groups within a nation or state."
    - elliekelly 5y ago
      You say it’s not a war and then offer a definition of war that very clearly applies to the current scenario.
      - remarkEon 5y ago
        If that scenario is defined as "Russia and Ukraine are currently engaged in battle" then sure. The United States and NATO are not at war with Russia and I'd prefer it stay that way.
        ssk169 5y ago
        Funny thing that word "war"... By that definition US has never been at war with Russia/USSR yet a large part of last century was called "The Cold War". Kinetic war is not the only form of warfare.
        remarkEon 5y ago
        You are free to blur the lines all you want, but OP and everyone else here knows what the end game is and they're going to drift that direction regardless of what people like me say about the dangers of doing so.
    - xwdv 5y ago
      That is called The End.
- syngrog66 5y ago
  Their country is killing thousands of innocent men, women, children, grandparents, babies etc. The West needs to prioritize on worrying about whats best for Ukraine, and saving their lives. Have more sympathy for them. Once Russia lays down arms and skidaddles back across their border perhaps we start feeling sympathy for the invaders then. What Russians need to do now is pick sides. Take a stand against Putin, or, leave Russia. Stay home & keep quiet? They Own him. His deeds. His mass murders. Zero sympathy for evil.
  - thebean11 5y ago
    Very easy for us westerners to criticize Russians for not protesting. I wonder if you'd be protesting if you lived in a place where doing so could get you killed?
    - syngrog66 5y ago
      Putin has been in power there for 20 years. Been attacking neighbor nations for at least 14 years, offhand. He has a clear track record. Info has been out there, and for a looooong time ordinary Russians were able to get facts, if they wished. They've had plenty of time to move away. Some have. Some chose to stay. These are the consequences of the choices they made.
      - thebean11 5y ago
        Again, easy for someone who has never been in circumstances like that to judge.
  - colejohnson66 5y ago
    People have been protesting; So far, 13,000 have been arrested.[0] Remember: Russia's judicial system is not the same as the US'. It's easy to armchair criticize when your life isn’t on the line. Is it North Korea's citizens' fault that they have a dictator? After all, they do have a "democracy" where Kim Jong-un is "elected": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_North_Korea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_North_Korea [0]: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-police-arrest-13k-protesters-as-ukraine-invasion-opposition-surges/ar-AAUMKLp https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-police-arrest-1...
thriftwy 5y ago
I doubt that FSB will intercept random calls from the USA. First, there's got to be a lot of calls since a few million Russians live in the USA. Second, everybody is using Skype/WhatsApp anyway so whatever they manage to capture is mostly pure noise ("granny, can you repeat your Skype login letter by letter").
blensor 5y ago
I get the general sentiment but wouldn't it make more sense to send letters to random people? Maybe even disguise it as a travel ad where the images of iconic places are replaced with their current state. I think it's important to get past the initial barrier against believing what is happening and you can only do that by being sneaky. Once you realize that someone is trying to convince you of something that goes against your core belief it's very likely you shut that information down but anything that got already past that barrier will slowly take root and grow.
akira2501 5y ago
So, it doesn't do any good and possibly gets innocent people hurt? And this is something I should take time out of my day to do?
gruez 5y ago
>* create distrust toward the FSB. This would be the result of people getting arrested for receiving phone calls from the US. Feels like calls like these are pretty easy to filter out just by looking at the metadata (ie. random incoming call from the west). On the other hand random calls like this definitely fuels the "foreign interference" that the FSB is probably pushing right now, and would make it more trustworthy.

by malka 5y ago

WinterMount223 5y ago

Are you okay with getting individuals possibly arrested in the name of a purported common good? You are no better than the FSB itself then.

malka 5y ago
We are at war. > You are no better than the FSB itself then. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- lofatdairy 5y ago
  To be honest I find the notion of "We" here to be rather dubious. Russia and Ukraine are at war, and while us private citizens of the broader English-speaking world can condemn one side, and support the other, pushing others towards the belief that this is somehow a total war and that every action is justifiable seems patently false.
  - malka 5y ago
    Russia has been pushing far right, and attempt to disrupt politics in my country for years. They have gotten Schroder on their payroll so he would sabotage german and Europe energy. Now, they have been threatening western Europe with nukes. Yes, we are clearly at war with Russia.
    - jl6 5y ago
      Words mean something. We are not at war with Russia.
      - frenchy 5y ago
        malka is probalby using "we" as an exclusive first person plural pronoun. In English, "we" doesn't always include "you".
    - lofatdairy 5y ago
      I don't mean any offense, but I think it's somewhat fascinating that the idea of total war seems assumed by both your comment and the original post. Even if the US and Russia were at war, the notion that private citizens were not just involved, but obligated to contribute seems to be a remnant of the world wars. What's interesting to me is that this notion seems to have disappeared, since to my knowledge there wasn't such an expectation with Vietnam and Korea (though maybe we can argue that the witch hunt for communists was something of a continuation). Maybe it's due to the positioning of Russia as an existential threat? It just reminds me of the whole freedom fries vs french fries thing and the idea that there isn't a separation between geopolitics and domestic politics.
      - malka 5y ago
        I live in Europe, I am french to be more precise. I feel Russia as an existential threat right now.
        lofatdairy 5y ago
        Right, and I'm not saying you're wrong for feeling that way, nor am I saying that Russia isn't an existential threat. But, at the risk of over-intellectualizing the situation, I think it's worth noting that for some reason, this Ukraine-Russia conflict has brought out feelings that citizens should be prepared to fight for their country. This, at least from an American perspective, seems to be a sentiment that comes and goes, but has only appeared in very few cases in our past. I cannot speak for the French in this case, but in general I think it's worth pointing out because you'd expect military conflicts to be resolved between militaries and their respective states - this social contract being something of the foundational idea to Western politics.
  - ssk169 5y ago
    Thinking that this is just between Russia and Ukraine is such a common mistake. Ukraine is the latest move in a larger chess game (remember Transnistria, Georgia, Bellarus?) where the end goal of Russian is a new world order. Instead of the current order based on western values and laws, Russia wants the so called "uni-polar world" to change such that it has it's own sphere of influence. That sphere would consist of weak countries subjected either politically, economically or militarily. It sees those as buffer states... and there are never enough of those.
- lenkite 5y ago
  Who is "we" here ?
byoffor88 5y ago
xwdv 5y ago
Yes, we’re at war. The rules have changed.
- fourseventy 5y ago
  If we are at "war" right now, then what is it called when US troops roll tanks into Russia... "super war"? Words have definitions. The definition of war is "a state of armed conflict between different nations or states or different groups within a nation or state."
  - elliekelly 5y ago
    You say it’s not a war and then offer a definition of war that very clearly applies to the current scenario.
    - remarkEon 5y ago
      If that scenario is defined as "Russia and Ukraine are currently engaged in battle" then sure. The United States and NATO are not at war with Russia and I'd prefer it stay that way.
      - ssk169 5y ago
        Funny thing that word "war"... By that definition US has never been at war with Russia/USSR yet a large part of last century was called "The Cold War". Kinetic war is not the only form of warfare.
        remarkEon 5y ago
        You are free to blur the lines all you want, but OP and everyone else here knows what the end game is and they're going to drift that direction regardless of what people like me say about the dangers of doing so.
  - xwdv 5y ago
    That is called The End.
syngrog66 5y ago
Their country is killing thousands of innocent men, women, children, grandparents, babies etc. The West needs to prioritize on worrying about whats best for Ukraine, and saving their lives. Have more sympathy for them. Once Russia lays down arms and skidaddles back across their border perhaps we start feeling sympathy for the invaders then. What Russians need to do now is pick sides. Take a stand against Putin, or, leave Russia. Stay home & keep quiet? They Own him. His deeds. His mass murders. Zero sympathy for evil.
- thebean11 5y ago
  Very easy for us westerners to criticize Russians for not protesting. I wonder if you'd be protesting if you lived in a place where doing so could get you killed?
  - syngrog66 5y ago
    Putin has been in power there for 20 years. Been attacking neighbor nations for at least 14 years, offhand. He has a clear track record. Info has been out there, and for a looooong time ordinary Russians were able to get facts, if they wished. They've had plenty of time to move away. Some have. Some chose to stay. These are the consequences of the choices they made.
    - thebean11 5y ago
      Again, easy for someone who has never been in circumstances like that to judge.
- colejohnson66 5y ago
  People have been protesting; So far, 13,000 have been arrested.[0] Remember: Russia's judicial system is not the same as the US'. It's easy to armchair criticize when your life isn’t on the line. Is it North Korea's citizens' fault that they have a dictator? After all, they do have a "democracy" where Kim Jong-un is "elected": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_North_Korea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_North_Korea [0]: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-police-arrest-13k-protesters-as-ukraine-invasion-opposition-surges/ar-AAUMKLp https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-police-arrest-1...

thriftwy 5y ago

I doubt that FSB will intercept random calls from the USA. First, there's got to be a lot of calls since a few million Russians live in the USA. Second, everybody is using Skype/WhatsApp anyway so whatever they manage to capture is mostly pure noise ("granny, can you repeat your Skype login letter by letter").

blensor 5y ago

I get the general sentiment but wouldn't it make more sense to send letters to random people? Maybe even disguise it as a travel ad where the images of iconic places are replaced with their current state. I think it's important to get past the initial barrier against believing what is happening and you can only do that by being sneaky. Once you realize that someone is trying to convince you of something that goes against your core belief it's very likely you shut that information down but anything that got already past that barrier will slowly take root and grow.

akira2501 5y ago

So, it doesn't do any good and possibly gets innocent people hurt? And this is something I should take time out of my day to do?

gruez 5y ago

>* create distrust toward the FSB. This would be the result of people getting arrested for receiving phone calls from the US. Feels like calls like these are pretty easy to filter out just by looking at the metadata (ie. random incoming call from the west). On the other hand random calls like this definitely fuels the "foreign interference" that the FSB is probably pushing right now, and would make it more trustworthy.