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As I said, most European countries don't have an ADIZ, and a number of those reported cases are of actual violations of national airspace. Not ADIZs. I agree t

by _djo_ 5y ago

As I said, most European countries don't have an ADIZ, and a number of those reported cases are of actual violations of national airspace. Not ADIZs. I agree that media reports that mistake the Taiwanese ADIZ for airspace are wrong and should be strongly criticised, but you're wrong to assume the same context is true for Russia and Europe.

ceejayoz 5y ago
> As I said, most European countries don't have an ADIZ, and a number of those reported cases are of actual violations of national airspace. Not ADIZs. Articles should distinguish between them, then. A headline of "Russian aircraft violated European airspace nearly 300 times" with "flying close to NATO airspace" in the actual copy is irresponsible journalism.
- _djo_ 5y ago
  That may be so, but it wasn’t the question the OP asked, which was about whether NATO was doing to Russian airspace what Russia has so often done to NATO airspace. In your response you wrongly asserted that was the case and you did so by confusing ADIZs with airspace. It’s not a terrible failing to be mistaken, but refusing to acknowledge an error is the wrong approach.
- belter 5y ago
  The imprecision's of some journalist's pale, comparing to the irresponsible behaviours that endager the security of others. Can you imagine any European country doing actions like: "Tactics typically deployed by Russian pilots include a practice of deliberately failing to report flight plans, ignoring civilian air traffic controllers and switching off their on-board transponders that NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg refers to as "flying dark" an approach which he said was inherently unsafe and poses a serious risk to civilian air traffic." "Russia has long history of airspace violations" https://www.aa.com.tr/en/politics/russia-has-long-history-of-airspace-violations/436331# https://www.aa.com.tr/en/politics/russia-has-long-history-of...
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    Failing to report flight plans isn't unusual. https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/no-need-foreign-military-aircraft-file-flight-plans-caas-before-flying-through-spore-airspace https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/no-need-foreign-milita... > Military aircraft are not required by international law to file flight plans with a country’s Air Traffic Service before flying through their Flight Information Region (FIR)... We violate airspace from time to time: https://www.cnn.com/2014/08/02/us/us-spy-plane/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2014/08/02/us/us-spy-plane/index.html > The quickest route away from the Russians took them into Swedish airspace. The U.S. official acknowledged that was done without Swedish military approval. > As a result of this incident, the United States is discussing the matter with Sweden and letting officials know there may be further occurrences where American jets have to divert so quickly they may not be able to wait for permission. And we fuck around with transponders: https://news.yahoo.com/u-spy-plane-impersonates-malaysian-130000120.html https://news.yahoo.com/u-spy-plane-impersonates-malaysian-13... > A U.S. Air Force aircraft electronically impersonated a Malaysian plane while flying over the South China Sea this week. The RC-135W Rivet Joint reconnaissance aircraft flew off China’s Hainan island on Tuesday, coming within 55 miles of the Chinese mainland.

by _djo_ 5y ago

ceejayoz 5y ago

> As I said, most European countries don't have an ADIZ, and a number of those reported cases are of actual violations of national airspace. Not ADIZs. Articles should distinguish between them, then. A headline of "Russian aircraft violated European airspace nearly 300 times" with "flying close to NATO airspace" in the actual copy is irresponsible journalism.

_djo_ 5y ago
That may be so, but it wasn’t the question the OP asked, which was about whether NATO was doing to Russian airspace what Russia has so often done to NATO airspace. In your response you wrongly asserted that was the case and you did so by confusing ADIZs with airspace. It’s not a terrible failing to be mistaken, but refusing to acknowledge an error is the wrong approach.
belter 5y ago
The imprecision's of some journalist's pale, comparing to the irresponsible behaviours that endager the security of others. Can you imagine any European country doing actions like: "Tactics typically deployed by Russian pilots include a practice of deliberately failing to report flight plans, ignoring civilian air traffic controllers and switching off their on-board transponders that NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg refers to as "flying dark" an approach which he said was inherently unsafe and poses a serious risk to civilian air traffic." "Russia has long history of airspace violations" https://www.aa.com.tr/en/politics/russia-has-long-history-of-airspace-violations/436331# https://www.aa.com.tr/en/politics/russia-has-long-history-of...
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  Failing to report flight plans isn't unusual. https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/no-need-foreign-military-aircraft-file-flight-plans-caas-before-flying-through-spore-airspace https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/no-need-foreign-milita... > Military aircraft are not required by international law to file flight plans with a country’s Air Traffic Service before flying through their Flight Information Region (FIR)... We violate airspace from time to time: https://www.cnn.com/2014/08/02/us/us-spy-plane/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2014/08/02/us/us-spy-plane/index.html > The quickest route away from the Russians took them into Swedish airspace. The U.S. official acknowledged that was done without Swedish military approval. > As a result of this incident, the United States is discussing the matter with Sweden and letting officials know there may be further occurrences where American jets have to divert so quickly they may not be able to wait for permission. And we fuck around with transponders: https://news.yahoo.com/u-spy-plane-impersonates-malaysian-130000120.html https://news.yahoo.com/u-spy-plane-impersonates-malaysian-13... > A U.S. Air Force aircraft electronically impersonated a Malaysian plane while flying over the South China Sea this week. The RC-135W Rivet Joint reconnaissance aircraft flew off China’s Hainan island on Tuesday, coming within 55 miles of the Chinese mainland.