6 ms·

I would probably advise against doing this. There have been rumors of Russian police looking through citizen's phones for indications that they are engaging wit

I would probably advise against doing this. There have been rumors of Russian police looking through citizen's phones for indications that they are engaging with western viewpoints on the "special operation". And the penalty for such activities is quite high right now. A random phone call from a U.S. citizen might look suspicious, and I don't imagine Russian police are giving much benefit of the doubt right now.

avh02 5y ago
just make sure to tell them to delete the call from their call history.
- ffhhj 5y ago
  That would make it seem more suspicious! Phone company logs, remember?
  - avh02 5y ago
    On the spot, at a checkpoint? I mean it's obviously possible but is it likely to happen on random inspection? (Serious question, I don't know in Russia, definitely not in other places)
    - ffhhj 5y ago
      Why wouldn't a police-state have a way to check phone logs from the phone network they control? Police in most countries can query number plates on the spot, it would be similar for phone calls if their laws admit it.
    - quinncom 5y ago
      Apparently it's happening: Police officers in Moscow are stopping people, demanding to see their phones, and refusing to release them if they refuse. https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-police-are-demanding-to-read-peoples-text-messages-reporter-2022-3 https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-police-are-demanding...
      - avh02 5y ago
        I meant about the phone company logs lookup, I can totally believe general searches.
Wowfunhappy 5y ago
This is an awfully dangerous game, but if Russians started getting phone calls from Americans en mass, could that actually provide cover for everyone?
- fouc 5y ago
  Well there's 144 million Russians. That's a lot of phone numbers to call. Probably need to call at least 5 million of them for it to be effective cover?
byoffor88 5y ago
javert 5y ago
This suggestion amounts to letting Ukrainian citizens die to avoid a miniscule chance of getting a Russian citizen arrested.
- martopix 5y ago
  Not quite. This is causing a relative risk of someone getting arrested in Russia, to create a minuscule chance that this person out of 150 million russians can make a difference in the public opinion, and the minuscule chance that a shift in public opinion in Russia can have any consequence at all on the war in Ukraine.
  - w_t_payne 5y ago
    It's more than a miniscule chance. And it's not just about the shift in public opinion. It's also about consuming the limited bandwidth that the Russian security services have available to deal with stuff like this. Think of it like DDOS-ing their internal security apperatus.
    - martopix 5y ago
      I really don't think this is how you change a warmonger's mind. And it's anyway under the assumption that you get enough people to make it a DDOS level thing.
- wbsss4412 5y ago
  Because unsolicited phone calls from people in the west is all that’s needed to stop the war.
  - xdennis 5y ago
    What are you doing better?
    - wbsss4412 5y ago
      It’s ok to be upset about what’s happening. That doesn’t mean one should be deluded into thinking they have a direct personal impact on the outcome of events. Parent commenter pointed out that making a bunch of unsolicited calls to Russians is counter productive. Proclaiming “something must be done!!” Might make you personally feel better, but that’s not a good thing if it only comes at a detriment to others. Seriously, how do you respond to unsolicited phone calls? This plan is half baked and will only harden the resolve of people who don’t already agree with the western point of view, and get people who do agree arrested. I take umbrage at the notion I can’t critique a bad idea unless I’m some sort of saint.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
CogitoCogito 5y ago
I also kind of wonder how effective it would be. Put yourself in their shoes. What if you received a random phone call from someone claiming that all the media coverage of the war in Ukraine is actually fake and that there is no war at all and it’s all a peace keeping in response to Ukrainian atrocities. Would you believe it? Given what I’ve seen in the news, I’d just write the person off as crazy personally. I’d expect a Russian’s reaction to be similar.
- Etherlord87 5y ago
  I would listen to the person's arguments and say what I don't like about those arguments. I find the symmetrism you represent ridiculous. How do we know the Earth isn't flat? Maybe flat-earthers are right? How do we know if santa claus exist? Well, we gather data and apply reasoning to that data... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistemology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistemology
  - BoiledCabbage 5y ago
    Just like you listen to the persons arguments and engage with them when someone calls you and says "Hello I am federal tax Marshall john Smith, and there is a warrant for your arrest. Or you can buy gift cards and send money to us to settle your debt." I'm certain you spend a while evaluating and debating those arguments.
    - Etherlord87 5y ago
      I don't understand what you're trying to argue here? If a government official wants to arrest me, of course I'm willing to argue to avoid that. Not sure what you mean with the gift cards either, are you referring to some scam going on in US? I don't live in the US so please consider how hard it is for me to figure what you mean. I had a Jehovah's witness visit me once, and unlike most people I did talk to her. She made some arguments, I counter-argued that I don't believe things without a proof, she asked me if I believe that air exists, and she followed my confirmation with the statement "but you can't see it" - to which I responded that I actually can see both the air directly (just like you can see foil laminate if you stack it into multiple layers) as well as indirectly through various experiments. She had no response to that, other than handing me a flyer, which I accepted.
pastor_bob 5y ago
And? Imagine being a Putin bootlicker and then still getting thrown in prison because of a suspicious phone call. I guess these people really do want to go back to the Soviet Era, eh?
w_t_payne 5y ago
We can allow fear to turn us all into slaves, or we can take simple acts like this to defend our freedom. Acting together, we can reach out to hundreds of thousands of individuals. The Russian police cannot arrest all who are contacted, and even if they try, all of that time, money and manpower that they pour into policing is time, money and manpower that is taken away from brutalizing people in Ukraine. So even if someone is arrested; even if they are imprisoned -- they can be proud to know that they have done something tangible and significant to help save lives.
- josephwegner 5y ago
  I don't think you get to decide for someone else that they should be proud to be in prison.
baybal2 5y ago
mcguire 5y ago
On the other hand, everyone having a random call from a US citizen would provide a lot of cover for other traffic.

avh02 5y ago

just make sure to tell them to delete the call from their call history.

ffhhj 5y ago
That would make it seem more suspicious! Phone company logs, remember?
- avh02 5y ago
  On the spot, at a checkpoint? I mean it's obviously possible but is it likely to happen on random inspection? (Serious question, I don't know in Russia, definitely not in other places)
  - ffhhj 5y ago
    Why wouldn't a police-state have a way to check phone logs from the phone network they control? Police in most countries can query number plates on the spot, it would be similar for phone calls if their laws admit it.
  - quinncom 5y ago
    Apparently it's happening: Police officers in Moscow are stopping people, demanding to see their phones, and refusing to release them if they refuse. https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-police-are-demanding-to-read-peoples-text-messages-reporter-2022-3 https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-police-are-demanding...
    - avh02 5y ago
      I meant about the phone company logs lookup, I can totally believe general searches.

Wowfunhappy 5y ago

This is an awfully dangerous game, but if Russians started getting phone calls from Americans en mass, could that actually provide cover for everyone?

fouc 5y ago
Well there's 144 million Russians. That's a lot of phone numbers to call. Probably need to call at least 5 million of them for it to be effective cover?

byoffor88 5y ago

javert 5y ago

This suggestion amounts to letting Ukrainian citizens die to avoid a miniscule chance of getting a Russian citizen arrested.

martopix 5y ago
Not quite. This is causing a relative risk of someone getting arrested in Russia, to create a minuscule chance that this person out of 150 million russians can make a difference in the public opinion, and the minuscule chance that a shift in public opinion in Russia can have any consequence at all on the war in Ukraine.
- w_t_payne 5y ago
  It's more than a miniscule chance. And it's not just about the shift in public opinion. It's also about consuming the limited bandwidth that the Russian security services have available to deal with stuff like this. Think of it like DDOS-ing their internal security apperatus.
  - martopix 5y ago
    I really don't think this is how you change a warmonger's mind. And it's anyway under the assumption that you get enough people to make it a DDOS level thing.
wbsss4412 5y ago
Because unsolicited phone calls from people in the west is all that’s needed to stop the war.
- xdennis 5y ago
  What are you doing better?
  - wbsss4412 5y ago
    It’s ok to be upset about what’s happening. That doesn’t mean one should be deluded into thinking they have a direct personal impact on the outcome of events. Parent commenter pointed out that making a bunch of unsolicited calls to Russians is counter productive. Proclaiming “something must be done!!” Might make you personally feel better, but that’s not a good thing if it only comes at a detriment to others. Seriously, how do you respond to unsolicited phone calls? This plan is half baked and will only harden the resolve of people who don’t already agree with the western point of view, and get people who do agree arrested. I take umbrage at the notion I can’t critique a bad idea unless I’m some sort of saint.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

CogitoCogito 5y ago

I also kind of wonder how effective it would be. Put yourself in their shoes. What if you received a random phone call from someone claiming that all the media coverage of the war in Ukraine is actually fake and that there is no war at all and it’s all a peace keeping in response to Ukrainian atrocities. Would you believe it? Given what I’ve seen in the news, I’d just write the person off as crazy personally. I’d expect a Russian’s reaction to be similar.

Etherlord87 5y ago
I would listen to the person's arguments and say what I don't like about those arguments. I find the symmetrism you represent ridiculous. How do we know the Earth isn't flat? Maybe flat-earthers are right? How do we know if santa claus exist? Well, we gather data and apply reasoning to that data... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistemology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistemology
- BoiledCabbage 5y ago
  Just like you listen to the persons arguments and engage with them when someone calls you and says "Hello I am federal tax Marshall john Smith, and there is a warrant for your arrest. Or you can buy gift cards and send money to us to settle your debt." I'm certain you spend a while evaluating and debating those arguments.
  - Etherlord87 5y ago
    I don't understand what you're trying to argue here? If a government official wants to arrest me, of course I'm willing to argue to avoid that. Not sure what you mean with the gift cards either, are you referring to some scam going on in US? I don't live in the US so please consider how hard it is for me to figure what you mean. I had a Jehovah's witness visit me once, and unlike most people I did talk to her. She made some arguments, I counter-argued that I don't believe things without a proof, she asked me if I believe that air exists, and she followed my confirmation with the statement "but you can't see it" - to which I responded that I actually can see both the air directly (just like you can see foil laminate if you stack it into multiple layers) as well as indirectly through various experiments. She had no response to that, other than handing me a flyer, which I accepted.

pastor_bob 5y ago

And? Imagine being a Putin bootlicker and then still getting thrown in prison because of a suspicious phone call. I guess these people really do want to go back to the Soviet Era, eh?

w_t_payne 5y ago

We can allow fear to turn us all into slaves, or we can take simple acts like this to defend our freedom. Acting together, we can reach out to hundreds of thousands of individuals. The Russian police cannot arrest all who are contacted, and even if they try, all of that time, money and manpower that they pour into policing is time, money and manpower that is taken away from brutalizing people in Ukraine. So even if someone is arrested; even if they are imprisoned -- they can be proud to know that they have done something tangible and significant to help save lives.

josephwegner 5y ago
I don't think you get to decide for someone else that they should be proud to be in prison.

baybal2 5y ago

mcguire 5y ago

On the other hand, everyone having a random call from a US citizen would provide a lot of cover for other traffic.