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> A heat pump installed is a year or more salary for most people if it's even an option. I think nuance is required here. I installed what is called a "heat pu

> A heat pump installed is a year or more salary for most people if it's even an option. I think nuance is required here. I installed what is called a "heat pump" in the US for $2500 USD this last summer. So you can see how claiming that $2500 is most people's salary for the year seems a little suspect from my POV.

bushbaba 5y ago
Bay Area heat pump install cost can reach 20k.
- hervature 5y ago
  A suit from Bijan also costs 25k. Am I supposed to extrapolate that all suits costs 25k? You are doing exactly this especially with the use of "can" which automatically implies an upper bar.
  - bushbaba 5y ago
    No but it’s to say that for many in the us installing a heat pump heater is a major expense where the roi will take many years to break even from savings
    - dahfizz 5y ago
      Everything in the Bay Area is a major expense. This does not really enlighten the overall discussion.
    - danans 5y ago
      A huge number of US households install or replace a central air conditioning system each year. The difference between a heat pump and an air conditioner is small (flow reversing valves, defroster on external compressor fins, some different control software). Those air conditioners should be replaced with heat pumps instead. At the very least, it provides summer cooling and a secondary backup heat source. Think of it as plug-in hybrid heating. The problem is that there are relatively few contractors offering these, and they are mostly targeting the luxury market. Similarly, manufacturers have positioned heat pumps as high-end devices, rather than reversible A/Cs. It is not even a skills gap issue. For the same reasons described above, if a technician can install an A/C they can install a heat pump. We need more technicians and more HVAC contractors willing to install them, which requires more consumers to demand them.
- danans 5y ago
  A new gas furnace plus A/C with the required high efficiency ducts will also cost about the same in the Bay Area. The 20k heat pump makes sense if you have to replace your entire HVAC system anyway due to age. Cheaper options that work in parallel with your existing furnace are ductless mini splits with one or two indoor units serving main living areas.
cptskippy 5y ago
> I installed what is called a "heat pump" in the US for $2500 USD this last summer. That sounds like a mini-split. I'm in the US and to me a heat pump involves drilling a bore hole and installing a ground loop. That costs anywhere from $1,500 to $10,000 depending on soil composition. Then you have the heat pump which ranges from $1,500 up to $10,000. Don't forget your home might have an older furnace, possibly gas or oil that probably needs to be replaced. Along with air handlers and any duct work. And that's only if your home is equipped with a conventional system. For an older home equipped with radiators or baseboard heaters you're probably better off swapping out your oil or gas for electric but that comes at a cost.
- samatman 5y ago
  This just isn't accurate though, you're using a definition of heat pump that's personal rather than shared. Here let me prove it: https://www.carrier.com/residential/en/us/products/heat-pumps/what-is-a-heat-pump-how-does-it-work/ https://www.carrier.com/residential/en/us/products/heat-pump... If you're going to insist that air source heat pumps don't exist then yes, heat pumps are very expensive. They do however, and especially in non-Scandinavian Europe, they will work fine.
  - cptskippy 5y ago
    > This just isn't accurate though, you're using a definition of heat pump that's personal rather than shared. TBH, that is the definition of heat pump that I grew up with. When people say heat pumps, I immediately think of ground source heat pumps.
    - samatman 5y ago
      Well then, I take it back that it isn't a shared definition in that sense. But it's a pity, because the air source ones are basically AC units which can also run backward to heat your home, and if more people knew that, they'd install them.
- colinmhayes 5y ago
  You're thinking of a geothermal heat pump which I do not think is what OP was talking about. Heat pumps are ac/furnace 2 in 1 systems that run on electricity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pump https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pump
vmh1928 5y ago
How many btu? How many sq feet or meters are you trying to heat or cool? Are you in the U.S.? What brand? $2500 seems low or for a small living space. copied from the web (so you know it's true.) "30 BTU of heating output per 1 sq ft of living space. For every sq ft of living space, you need about 30 BTU of heating output. That means, for example, that for a 1,000 sq ft home, you would require a 30,000 BTU heat pump (that's a 2.5-ton heat pump)." Cost from 2021 (so it's more now with shortages and inflation.) For $2500 USD you are under 2 tons. https://www.avsheatingandair.com/hvac-cost/heat-pump-installation-cost/ https://www.avsheatingandair.com/hvac-cost/heat-pump-install...
- andrew_ 5y ago
  > Are you in the U.S.? Indeed > What brand? Carrier. 2.5 ton. In fairness, you reference a single retailer. And that's really important here - retailers will always have a significant markup. You want to go to a wholesaler like CE [1] for a good deal. Most HVAC wholesalers and suppliers will give walk-ins an above wholesale price, which is still less than retail. > For $2500 USD you are under 2 tons. Certainly not. Perhaps with installation, but not the equipment. Here's some super lazy validation https://www.google.com/search?q=carrier+2.5+ton+heat+pump&sxsrf=APq-WBtI_-LjAMTlSAnS7FDQoE1hAxn_2A:1646754616053&source=lnms&tbm=shop&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiWxK__7rb2AhXFSjABHZYeA7sQ_AUoAXoECAIQAw&biw=1685&bih=935&dpr=2 https://www.google.com/search?q=carrier+2.5+ton+heat+pump&sx... [1] https://www.carrierenterprise.com/search.html?query=heat%20pump https://www.carrierenterprise.com/search.html?query=heat%20p...
  - bal00ns 5y ago
    Most people are not able to install a heat pump themselves. I consider myself a fairly technical DIY sort of person but was not comfortable installing it myself. Installation is going to be the majority of the cost for the typical person buying a new heat pump.
    - andrew_ 5y ago
      The labor to install mine was $450. Granted I'm in the Southeast of the U.S. so YMMV, but that is not universally true and shouldn't be stated as such.
na85 5y ago
I was quoted more than $25000 to have one installed here on Vancouver island.

bushbaba 5y ago

Bay Area heat pump install cost can reach 20k.

hervature 5y ago
A suit from Bijan also costs 25k. Am I supposed to extrapolate that all suits costs 25k? You are doing exactly this especially with the use of "can" which automatically implies an upper bar.
- bushbaba 5y ago
  No but it’s to say that for many in the us installing a heat pump heater is a major expense where the roi will take many years to break even from savings
  - dahfizz 5y ago
    Everything in the Bay Area is a major expense. This does not really enlighten the overall discussion.
  - danans 5y ago
    A huge number of US households install or replace a central air conditioning system each year. The difference between a heat pump and an air conditioner is small (flow reversing valves, defroster on external compressor fins, some different control software). Those air conditioners should be replaced with heat pumps instead. At the very least, it provides summer cooling and a secondary backup heat source. Think of it as plug-in hybrid heating. The problem is that there are relatively few contractors offering these, and they are mostly targeting the luxury market. Similarly, manufacturers have positioned heat pumps as high-end devices, rather than reversible A/Cs. It is not even a skills gap issue. For the same reasons described above, if a technician can install an A/C they can install a heat pump. We need more technicians and more HVAC contractors willing to install them, which requires more consumers to demand them.
danans 5y ago
A new gas furnace plus A/C with the required high efficiency ducts will also cost about the same in the Bay Area. The 20k heat pump makes sense if you have to replace your entire HVAC system anyway due to age. Cheaper options that work in parallel with your existing furnace are ductless mini splits with one or two indoor units serving main living areas.

cptskippy 5y ago

> I installed what is called a "heat pump" in the US for $2500 USD this last summer. That sounds like a mini-split. I'm in the US and to me a heat pump involves drilling a bore hole and installing a ground loop. That costs anywhere from $1,500 to $10,000 depending on soil composition. Then you have the heat pump which ranges from $1,500 up to $10,000. Don't forget your home might have an older furnace, possibly gas or oil that probably needs to be replaced. Along with air handlers and any duct work. And that's only if your home is equipped with a conventional system. For an older home equipped with radiators or baseboard heaters you're probably better off swapping out your oil or gas for electric but that comes at a cost.

samatman 5y ago
This just isn't accurate though, you're using a definition of heat pump that's personal rather than shared. Here let me prove it: https://www.carrier.com/residential/en/us/products/heat-pumps/what-is-a-heat-pump-how-does-it-work/ https://www.carrier.com/residential/en/us/products/heat-pump... If you're going to insist that air source heat pumps don't exist then yes, heat pumps are very expensive. They do however, and especially in non-Scandinavian Europe, they will work fine.
- cptskippy 5y ago
  > This just isn't accurate though, you're using a definition of heat pump that's personal rather than shared. TBH, that is the definition of heat pump that I grew up with. When people say heat pumps, I immediately think of ground source heat pumps.
  - samatman 5y ago
    Well then, I take it back that it isn't a shared definition in that sense. But it's a pity, because the air source ones are basically AC units which can also run backward to heat your home, and if more people knew that, they'd install them.
colinmhayes 5y ago
You're thinking of a geothermal heat pump which I do not think is what OP was talking about. Heat pumps are ac/furnace 2 in 1 systems that run on electricity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pump https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pump

vmh1928 5y ago

How many btu? How many sq feet or meters are you trying to heat or cool? Are you in the U.S.? What brand? $2500 seems low or for a small living space. copied from the web (so you know it's true.) "30 BTU of heating output per 1 sq ft of living space. For every sq ft of living space, you need about 30 BTU of heating output. That means, for example, that for a 1,000 sq ft home, you would require a 30,000 BTU heat pump (that's a 2.5-ton heat pump)." Cost from 2021 (so it's more now with shortages and inflation.) For $2500 USD you are under 2 tons. https://www.avsheatingandair.com/hvac-cost/heat-pump-installation-cost/ https://www.avsheatingandair.com/hvac-cost/heat-pump-install...

andrew_ 5y ago
> Are you in the U.S.? Indeed > What brand? Carrier. 2.5 ton. In fairness, you reference a single retailer. And that's really important here - retailers will always have a significant markup. You want to go to a wholesaler like CE [1] for a good deal. Most HVAC wholesalers and suppliers will give walk-ins an above wholesale price, which is still less than retail. > For $2500 USD you are under 2 tons. Certainly not. Perhaps with installation, but not the equipment. Here's some super lazy validation https://www.google.com/search?q=carrier+2.5+ton+heat+pump&sxsrf=APq-WBtI_-LjAMTlSAnS7FDQoE1hAxn_2A:1646754616053&source=lnms&tbm=shop&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiWxK__7rb2AhXFSjABHZYeA7sQ_AUoAXoECAIQAw&biw=1685&bih=935&dpr=2 https://www.google.com/search?q=carrier+2.5+ton+heat+pump&sx... [1] https://www.carrierenterprise.com/search.html?query=heat%20pump https://www.carrierenterprise.com/search.html?query=heat%20p...
- bal00ns 5y ago
  Most people are not able to install a heat pump themselves. I consider myself a fairly technical DIY sort of person but was not comfortable installing it myself. Installation is going to be the majority of the cost for the typical person buying a new heat pump.
  - andrew_ 5y ago
    The labor to install mine was $450. Granted I'm in the Southeast of the U.S. so YMMV, but that is not universally true and shouldn't be stated as such.

na85 5y ago

I was quoted more than $25000 to have one installed here on Vancouver island.