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You mention elsewhere that your heat doesn't come from a heat pump. It is absurd that you brag of low wattage when you're using gas directly to heat your home.

You mention elsewhere that your heat doesn't come from a heat pump. It is absurd that you brag of low wattage when you're using gas directly to heat your home. A heat pump is one of two things a household can do to meaningfully reduce energy consumption, and the other one is not owning a car. The rest of it is feel-good at best and self-righteous at the worst, when people start yelling at each other about imported food and aren't using heat pumps.

cptskippy 5y ago
The reality is that fuel type isn't a choice for the vast majority of people. A heat pump installed is a year or more salary for most people if it's even an option. Not owning a car is equally impractical in many parts of the world unless you happen to have considerable salary. Everyone doing small things to reduce their overall impact during peak hours is something everyone can participate in at no cost and can have major impact.
- eldaisfish 5y ago
  what would be great is if we stopped amplifying misleading messaging from some of the biggest polluters on the planet - oil companies, shipping companies and agriculture. Personal responsibility is great but it's a drop in the proverbial bucket compared to what just one of these industries could do if they so wanted. Shipping, for example, has great potential to reduce emissions yet most large companies do everything in their power to pass minimum standards in territorial waters and then it's a free for all on international waters.
  - therealdrag0 5y ago
    Shipping is the most efficient mode of transport though?
- andrew_ 5y ago
  > A heat pump installed is a year or more salary for most people if it's even an option. I think nuance is required here. I installed what is called a "heat pump" in the US for $2500 USD this last summer. So you can see how claiming that $2500 is most people's salary for the year seems a little suspect from my POV.
  - bushbaba 5y ago
    Bay Area heat pump install cost can reach 20k.
    - hervature 5y ago
      A suit from Bijan also costs 25k. Am I supposed to extrapolate that all suits costs 25k? You are doing exactly this especially with the use of "can" which automatically implies an upper bar.
      - bushbaba 5y ago
        No but it’s to say that for many in the us installing a heat pump heater is a major expense where the roi will take many years to break even from savings
        dahfizz 5y ago
        Everything in the Bay Area is a major expense. This does not really enlighten the overall discussion.
        danans 5y ago
        A huge number of US households install or replace a central air conditioning system each year. The difference between a heat pump and an air conditioner is small (flow reversing valves, defroster on external compressor fins, some different control software). Those air conditioners should be replaced with heat pumps instead. At the very least, it provides summer cooling and a secondary backup heat source. Think of it as plug-in hybrid heating. The problem is that there are relatively few contractors offering these, and they are mostly targeting the luxury market. Similarly, manufacturers have positioned heat pumps as high-end devices, rather than reversible A/Cs. It is not even a skills gap issue. For the same reasons described above, if a technician can install an A/C they can install a heat pump. We need more technicians and more HVAC contractors willing to install them, which requires more consumers to demand them.
    - danans 5y ago
- dahfizz 5y ago
  Sure, that's fair. But if you use gas for all your heating and cooking, you should not smugly post on HN about how you are below average electricity usage, its so easy, and everyone else needs to wake up.
stjohnswarts 5y ago
Energy efficiency != green footprint. Gas is amazingly efficient, near 100%, certainly as good as a heat pump on 100% carbon neutral energy. However the green footprint it awful compared to an electric heatpump.
- pedrocr 5y ago
  Amazingly a modern heat pump running on electricity generated by 100% gas is more efficient at heating than burning the gas for heat directly. Modern heat pumps are 5x efficient so you break even at even just 20% thermal efficiency of the power plant and gas plants are much more efficient than that. If you use the waste heat of the power plant for something else useful it's even better. Switching everyone to heat pumps would help even if 100% of your grid electricity was obtained by burning gas and obviously pretty much everywhere does much better than that.
- Reason077 5y ago
  > "Gas is amazingly efficient, near 100%, certainly as good as a heat pump on 100% carbon neutral energy." Heat pumps achieve far in excess of 100% efficiency. You get several times more heat energy out than electrical energy goes in. Of course, gas has in previous years been very cheap in many regions. So despite their efficiency advantage, often there hasn't been enough of an economic advantage to justify the upfront cost. But with the recent gas crisis, that might now be changing in Europe.

cptskippy 5y ago

The reality is that fuel type isn't a choice for the vast majority of people. A heat pump installed is a year or more salary for most people if it's even an option. Not owning a car is equally impractical in many parts of the world unless you happen to have considerable salary. Everyone doing small things to reduce their overall impact during peak hours is something everyone can participate in at no cost and can have major impact.

eldaisfish 5y ago
what would be great is if we stopped amplifying misleading messaging from some of the biggest polluters on the planet - oil companies, shipping companies and agriculture. Personal responsibility is great but it's a drop in the proverbial bucket compared to what just one of these industries could do if they so wanted. Shipping, for example, has great potential to reduce emissions yet most large companies do everything in their power to pass minimum standards in territorial waters and then it's a free for all on international waters.
- therealdrag0 5y ago
  Shipping is the most efficient mode of transport though?
andrew_ 5y ago
> A heat pump installed is a year or more salary for most people if it's even an option. I think nuance is required here. I installed what is called a "heat pump" in the US for $2500 USD this last summer. So you can see how claiming that $2500 is most people's salary for the year seems a little suspect from my POV.
- bushbaba 5y ago
  Bay Area heat pump install cost can reach 20k.
  - hervature 5y ago
    A suit from Bijan also costs 25k. Am I supposed to extrapolate that all suits costs 25k? You are doing exactly this especially with the use of "can" which automatically implies an upper bar.
    - bushbaba 5y ago
      No but it’s to say that for many in the us installing a heat pump heater is a major expense where the roi will take many years to break even from savings
      - dahfizz 5y ago
        Everything in the Bay Area is a major expense. This does not really enlighten the overall discussion.
      - danans 5y ago
        A huge number of US households install or replace a central air conditioning system each year. The difference between a heat pump and an air conditioner is small (flow reversing valves, defroster on external compressor fins, some different control software). Those air conditioners should be replaced with heat pumps instead. At the very least, it provides summer cooling and a secondary backup heat source. Think of it as plug-in hybrid heating. The problem is that there are relatively few contractors offering these, and they are mostly targeting the luxury market. Similarly, manufacturers have positioned heat pumps as high-end devices, rather than reversible A/Cs. It is not even a skills gap issue. For the same reasons described above, if a technician can install an A/C they can install a heat pump. We need more technicians and more HVAC contractors willing to install them, which requires more consumers to demand them.
  - danans 5y ago
dahfizz 5y ago
Sure, that's fair. But if you use gas for all your heating and cooking, you should not smugly post on HN about how you are below average electricity usage, its so easy, and everyone else needs to wake up.

stjohnswarts 5y ago

Energy efficiency != green footprint. Gas is amazingly efficient, near 100%, certainly as good as a heat pump on 100% carbon neutral energy. However the green footprint it awful compared to an electric heatpump.

pedrocr 5y ago
Amazingly a modern heat pump running on electricity generated by 100% gas is more efficient at heating than burning the gas for heat directly. Modern heat pumps are 5x efficient so you break even at even just 20% thermal efficiency of the power plant and gas plants are much more efficient than that. If you use the waste heat of the power plant for something else useful it's even better. Switching everyone to heat pumps would help even if 100% of your grid electricity was obtained by burning gas and obviously pretty much everywhere does much better than that.
Reason077 5y ago
> "Gas is amazingly efficient, near 100%, certainly as good as a heat pump on 100% carbon neutral energy." Heat pumps achieve far in excess of 100% efficiency. You get several times more heat energy out than electrical energy goes in. Of course, gas has in previous years been very cheap in many regions. So despite their efficiency advantage, often there hasn't been enough of an economic advantage to justify the upfront cost. But with the recent gas crisis, that might now be changing in Europe.