4 ms·

The issue is not whether you or any number of people can 'handle' X (whatever X is), the issue is, Is X, when it and its consequences are considered in their en

The issue is not whether you or any number of people can 'handle' X (whatever X is), the issue is, Is X, when it and its consequences are considered in their entirety, a net positive or not? Also, stating that alcohol has a pernicious effect on society doesn't imply that one is demonising drinkers at all. Some might do that, but it is not implied in the statement. In the UK something like 90% of crime is alcohol related, most A&E admissions are alcohol related, etc. As someone who used to drink (i.e. take alcohol) and now doesn't, I feel qualified to agree with armandososa that for many it's not until you stop drinking that you really become sensitive to many of its negative effects such as those he/she mentioned. Edit: in case it's not absolutely clear, I am sure you are a good person whether you drink or not. That does not mean that widespread use of alcohol is good for society.

burgerbrain 15y ago
Fair enough. I often just feel attacked in topics such as this, some people are not so careful to avoid demonising drinkers in general. Anyway, I think my point distilled is that although alcohol may be very commonly involved in crime that doesn't mean that crime is actually very common. And for what it's worth (not much, since this isn't my field of study ;), I'd say that alcohol probably never caused rape. You have to be pretty damn fucked up in the first place to rape somebody, normal people will never do it no matter how much alcohol you put in them.
- abdulhaq 15y ago
  distilling your point eh ;-). I agree about alcohol probably not 'causing' rape, but perhaps it can loosen those final inhibitions for those sick enough to consider it.
- philwelch 15y ago
  At the very least, having sex with someone who's passed out and unable to consent is rape; those rapes, at the very least, could not be committed without some type of drug to cause the person to pass out, and alcohol is the most legal and most widely used drug that has that effect. I'm quite inclined to think that rape is far more common than you think. Most rapists are perfectly "normal" people in their everyday lives.
  - burgerbrain 15y ago
    Rapists are, by definition, not normal. The untrained layman might not be able to pick them out, just like sociopaths often manage to slip under the radar in day to day affairs, but they are fundamentally a different sort of animal.
    - philwelch 15y ago
      I'm not sure what definition of "rapist" or "normal" you're using, but the typical rapist is probably closer to "selfish asshole on a first date" than "masked man hiding in the bushes". And selfish assholes are frankly very common.

burgerbrain 15y ago

Fair enough. I often just feel attacked in topics such as this, some people are not so careful to avoid demonising drinkers in general. Anyway, I think my point distilled is that although alcohol may be very commonly involved in crime that doesn't mean that crime is actually very common. And for what it's worth (not much, since this isn't my field of study ;), I'd say that alcohol probably never caused rape. You have to be pretty damn fucked up in the first place to rape somebody, normal people will never do it no matter how much alcohol you put in them.

abdulhaq 15y ago
distilling your point eh ;-). I agree about alcohol probably not 'causing' rape, but perhaps it can loosen those final inhibitions for those sick enough to consider it.
philwelch 15y ago
At the very least, having sex with someone who's passed out and unable to consent is rape; those rapes, at the very least, could not be committed without some type of drug to cause the person to pass out, and alcohol is the most legal and most widely used drug that has that effect. I'm quite inclined to think that rape is far more common than you think. Most rapists are perfectly "normal" people in their everyday lives.
- burgerbrain 15y ago
  Rapists are, by definition, not normal. The untrained layman might not be able to pick them out, just like sociopaths often manage to slip under the radar in day to day affairs, but they are fundamentally a different sort of animal.
  - philwelch 15y ago
    I'm not sure what definition of "rapist" or "normal" you're using, but the typical rapist is probably closer to "selfish asshole on a first date" than "masked man hiding in the bushes". And selfish assholes are frankly very common.