7 ms·

Address of the Russian Union of Rectors

10 points by keewee7 5y ago

_0w8t 5y ago
Typically in Russia it was possible not to support actions of the government even when working for the government directly or indirectly. The threat of being fired was empty as bosses did not want to report to superiors that some people did not participate in official campaigns. But this time the threats became real and an option to keep the mouth shut no longer exists.
hughrr 5y ago
Spineless. They will be remembered for this.
- spacemanmatt 5y ago
  I doubt they experience much real choice in the matter.
rosndo 5y ago
It would be easy and prudent to personally sanction anyone putting their name on lists like this, no? These are 700 people who should be permanently cut off from the west.
- throwaway5848 5y ago
  No, it would not be prudent. In fact, "permanently cutting off" an individual from "the west" just because they support something you don't agree with sets a very dangerous precedent and is many times worse than any war. It's screwed up that you're even suggesting this.
  - rosndo 5y ago
    - pureliquidhw 5y ago
      Under duress you'd be surprised what you'd publicly support. It's not as if every Russian has the luxury to say what they want and not fear extreme retaliation. Instead of "Russians", think instead "diverse group of humans living under a violent, jealous, unpredictable regime." Just like victims of domestic abuse struggle to escape their abuser, it's not as easy to say "fuck off" or actually leave as keyboard pundits would have us believe. If you want some history about making lists, check out the McCarthy Trials.
      - throwaway5848 5y ago
        Or, they actually support the invasion, which is valid as well. I may not agree, but I think everyone can express support for any position. The only position that is invalid is censorship/suppression/thought control, because it cuts off communication.
      - rosndo 5y ago
        >Under duress you'd be surprised what you'd publicly support. >It's not as if every Russian has the luxury to say what they want and not fear extreme retaliation. I suspect that vast majority of people saying things like this haven’t even visited Russia. I own a home in Moscow, am married to a Russian. Our family has been hit hard by sanctions. I have skin in the game. Knowing what I know about the actual experience of living in Russia, I don’t believe any of these people are under duress to support this.
        pureliquidhw 5y ago
        Fair point. Rectors enjoy a great deal of privilege, but heavy is the head that wears the crown. I don't have the Russian credentials you do so I'm only able to guess at reasons something so unreasonable can be supported.
        rosndo 5y ago
        A huge amount of Russians genuinely support these things, rectors tend to be older so they definitely represent the most supportive demographic.
aaron695 5y ago
smoyer 5y ago
Yesterday there was a story about a rector who was arrested for preaching against the war during a sermon - pretty courageous but that kind of courage is apparently not too common.
gambiting 5y ago
Just keep in mind that in the old Soviet Union if you had a public position or a position with public influence(like a rector) you were always expected to agree with the government, or (in the best case) you'd lose your job. So it could be very much a case of "sign this or you'll regret it".
ordu 5y ago
There are no ppl left in these positions who had not proved their loyalty to Kremlin in the past. Students tend to speak their mind (Doxa[1] is a good example) and they can organize themselves, so they need shepherds. For example, Zuev was imprisoned, because Kremlin didn't found another way to deal with him.[2] [1] https://novayagazeta.ru/articles/2021/07/07/5-prichin-pochemu-delo-doxa-dolzhno-byt-zakryto https://novayagazeta.ru/articles/2021/07/07/5-prichin-pochem... [2] https://novayagazeta.ru/articles/2022/03/04/sud-prodlil-arest-rektoru-shaninki-sergeiu-zuevu-news https://novayagazeta.ru/articles/2022/03/04/sud-prodlil-ares... Sorry, links in Russian, but as a tl;dr: Doxa[3] is a students led media, and they were crushed after they showed their support to Navalny. They had troubles before, but this was the last straw. Zuev was a rector of Moscow School for the Social and Economic Sciences[3], which was itself under the attack for years, and it ended with charges to Zuev alleging that he misused money from government. [3] https://doxajournal.ru/ https://doxajournal.ru/ [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_School_for_the_Social_and_Economic_Sciences https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_School_for_the_Social_a...
qzw 5y ago
War is always a good pretext for crushing internal dissent, since critics can easily be branded as traitors. Some Russian observers believe the only reason Putin is invading Ukraine right now is because his position has weakened to the point that he needed a war to shore up support and get rid of opposition. So now is probably not a great time to accurately gauge how much real support and loyalty he commands.

10 points by keewee7 5y ago

Typically in Russia it was possible not to support actions of the government even when working for the government directly or indirectly. The threat of being fired was empty as bosses did not want to report to superiors that some people did not participate in official campaigns. But this time the threats became real and an option to keep the mouth shut no longer exists.

hughrr 5y ago

Spineless. They will be remembered for this.

spacemanmatt 5y ago
I doubt they experience much real choice in the matter.

rosndo 5y ago

It would be easy and prudent to personally sanction anyone putting their name on lists like this, no? These are 700 people who should be permanently cut off from the west.

throwaway5848 5y ago
No, it would not be prudent. In fact, "permanently cutting off" an individual from "the west" just because they support something you don't agree with sets a very dangerous precedent and is many times worse than any war. It's screwed up that you're even suggesting this.
- rosndo 5y ago
  - pureliquidhw 5y ago
    Under duress you'd be surprised what you'd publicly support. It's not as if every Russian has the luxury to say what they want and not fear extreme retaliation. Instead of "Russians", think instead "diverse group of humans living under a violent, jealous, unpredictable regime." Just like victims of domestic abuse struggle to escape their abuser, it's not as easy to say "fuck off" or actually leave as keyboard pundits would have us believe. If you want some history about making lists, check out the McCarthy Trials.
    - throwaway5848 5y ago
      Or, they actually support the invasion, which is valid as well. I may not agree, but I think everyone can express support for any position. The only position that is invalid is censorship/suppression/thought control, because it cuts off communication.
    - rosndo 5y ago
      >Under duress you'd be surprised what you'd publicly support. >It's not as if every Russian has the luxury to say what they want and not fear extreme retaliation. I suspect that vast majority of people saying things like this haven’t even visited Russia. I own a home in Moscow, am married to a Russian. Our family has been hit hard by sanctions. I have skin in the game. Knowing what I know about the actual experience of living in Russia, I don’t believe any of these people are under duress to support this.
      - pureliquidhw 5y ago
        Fair point. Rectors enjoy a great deal of privilege, but heavy is the head that wears the crown. I don't have the Russian credentials you do so I'm only able to guess at reasons something so unreasonable can be supported.
        rosndo 5y ago
        A huge amount of Russians genuinely support these things, rectors tend to be older so they definitely represent the most supportive demographic.

aaron695 5y ago

smoyer 5y ago

Yesterday there was a story about a rector who was arrested for preaching against the war during a sermon - pretty courageous but that kind of courage is apparently not too common.

gambiting 5y ago

Just keep in mind that in the old Soviet Union if you had a public position or a position with public influence(like a rector) you were always expected to agree with the government, or (in the best case) you'd lose your job. So it could be very much a case of "sign this or you'll regret it".

ordu 5y ago

There are no ppl left in these positions who had not proved their loyalty to Kremlin in the past. Students tend to speak their mind (Doxa[1] is a good example) and they can organize themselves, so they need shepherds. For example, Zuev was imprisoned, because Kremlin didn't found another way to deal with him.[2] [1] https://novayagazeta.ru/articles/2021/07/07/5-prichin-pochemu-delo-doxa-dolzhno-byt-zakryto https://novayagazeta.ru/articles/2021/07/07/5-prichin-pochem... [2] https://novayagazeta.ru/articles/2022/03/04/sud-prodlil-arest-rektoru-shaninki-sergeiu-zuevu-news https://novayagazeta.ru/articles/2022/03/04/sud-prodlil-ares... Sorry, links in Russian, but as a tl;dr: Doxa[3] is a students led media, and they were crushed after they showed their support to Navalny. They had troubles before, but this was the last straw. Zuev was a rector of Moscow School for the Social and Economic Sciences[3], which was itself under the attack for years, and it ended with charges to Zuev alleging that he misused money from government. [3] https://doxajournal.ru/ https://doxajournal.ru/ [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_School_for_the_Social_and_Economic_Sciences https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_School_for_the_Social_a...

qzw 5y ago

War is always a good pretext for crushing internal dissent, since critics can easily be branded as traitors. Some Russian observers believe the only reason Putin is invading Ukraine right now is because his position has weakened to the point that he needed a war to shore up support and get rid of opposition. So now is probably not a great time to accurately gauge how much real support and loyalty he commands.