4 ms·

Sure but depending how it is framed it has very real consequences. Just see the other post below you, cynically, already downvoted. It rallies people up in some

Sure but depending how it is framed it has very real consequences. Just see the other post below you, cynically, already downvoted. It rallies people up in some self-righteous parallel reality cheering on the conflict quelling any voice of reason. After all there is the archetypal underdog you know and love from movies, surely the eagles will come any moment now. Ukrainians will die over the unwillingness to just take what ever demands Russia has now instead of in what ever time it takes to install a puppet regime in the rubble. And while some are forced to stay there due to conscription, quite a lot seem to be caught up in a nationalistic fever and delusional belief that "the West will stand with them". The only thing the west will do is ship outdated weapon to give Russia their Vietnam. Which unfortunately for the Ukrainian people will be fought in their hometowns. edit: Or answering it shorter, Outrage doesnt justify loosing touch with reality. Which already was the initial statement

sofixa 5y ago
> Ukrainians will die over the unwillingness to just take what ever demands Russia has now instead of in what ever time it takes to install a puppet regime in the rubble. And while some are forced to stay there due to conscription, quite a lot seem to be caught up in a nationalistic fever and delusional belief that "the West will stand with them". They don't want to submit to tyranny and they don't want to be ruled by Moscow, let alone Putin. I wouldn't either, and i don't get who would. Why would they submit to the invader actively slaughtering their neighbours, friends, countrymen? Most of them are aware that Russia cannot win. They cannot hope to occupy and rule Ukraine if Ukrainians don't want them to. Why submit then?
- cf141q5325 5y ago
  Because you, your family and your neighbors will all die. Russia not able to win would look like Syria. Syria is a failed state propped up by Russia and Iran carved up by superpowers with the local population at their whim. We also dont live in 2000 anymore. As far as i am aware Ukraine didnt get any noteworthy anti air shipments. Stinger are useless for anything except passenger planes and some older helicopters. You wont shoot any jets down with it. And once doctrine switches back to standard artillery bombardment there isnt going to be much else to shoot at. All of this not mentioning drone warfare and the ability to identify what they deem hostile elements. Russia is only limited in how cruel they are going to get in this. Of course they can win, it could just become very very horrible. If you think this conflict will look like Titos partisans if escalated further, think more Grozny combined with the treatment of the Uyghurs. edit: Think about that way, getting rid of everyone who still holds your opinion, that >Most of them are aware that Russia cannot win. They cannot hope to occupy and rule Ukraine if Ukrainians don't want them to. Why submit then? after a few months of classical bombardment is by now a trivial task. Same with the larger group who would do something about that. And even if you somehow could hide creating refugee waves is a very attractive geopolitical tool for Russia. It is that bad.
  - xdennis 5y ago
    > Because you, your family and your neighbors will all die. No, because of the nazi orcs. Sooner or later the civilized world will have to intervene.
    - cf141q5325 5y ago
      Even if that were the case it wouldnt change the result. And that is that NATO will not trigger WW3 and faced with further resistance Russia is very like to escalate further having exactly the result i described. Especially if this turns into a truly ethnic conflict. I dont mean it derogatory and i dont know how else to word that your feelings dont change that. And i dont know how you could think that when taking a moment to think rationally. Neither Putin nor Stoltenberg take your feelings into account.
    - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
      >Sooner or later the civilized world will have to intervene. Sooner would be much better though. What are they waiting for? Russia to bomb Ukraine into an unlivable wasteland and have ~40 million refugees move west?

sofixa 5y ago

> Ukrainians will die over the unwillingness to just take what ever demands Russia has now instead of in what ever time it takes to install a puppet regime in the rubble. And while some are forced to stay there due to conscription, quite a lot seem to be caught up in a nationalistic fever and delusional belief that "the West will stand with them". They don't want to submit to tyranny and they don't want to be ruled by Moscow, let alone Putin. I wouldn't either, and i don't get who would. Why would they submit to the invader actively slaughtering their neighbours, friends, countrymen? Most of them are aware that Russia cannot win. They cannot hope to occupy and rule Ukraine if Ukrainians don't want them to. Why submit then?

cf141q5325 5y ago
Because you, your family and your neighbors will all die. Russia not able to win would look like Syria. Syria is a failed state propped up by Russia and Iran carved up by superpowers with the local population at their whim. We also dont live in 2000 anymore. As far as i am aware Ukraine didnt get any noteworthy anti air shipments. Stinger are useless for anything except passenger planes and some older helicopters. You wont shoot any jets down with it. And once doctrine switches back to standard artillery bombardment there isnt going to be much else to shoot at. All of this not mentioning drone warfare and the ability to identify what they deem hostile elements. Russia is only limited in how cruel they are going to get in this. Of course they can win, it could just become very very horrible. If you think this conflict will look like Titos partisans if escalated further, think more Grozny combined with the treatment of the Uyghurs. edit: Think about that way, getting rid of everyone who still holds your opinion, that >Most of them are aware that Russia cannot win. They cannot hope to occupy and rule Ukraine if Ukrainians don't want them to. Why submit then? after a few months of classical bombardment is by now a trivial task. Same with the larger group who would do something about that. And even if you somehow could hide creating refugee waves is a very attractive geopolitical tool for Russia. It is that bad.
- xdennis 5y ago
  > Because you, your family and your neighbors will all die. No, because of the nazi orcs. Sooner or later the civilized world will have to intervene.
  - cf141q5325 5y ago
    Even if that were the case it wouldnt change the result. And that is that NATO will not trigger WW3 and faced with further resistance Russia is very like to escalate further having exactly the result i described. Especially if this turns into a truly ethnic conflict. I dont mean it derogatory and i dont know how else to word that your feelings dont change that. And i dont know how you could think that when taking a moment to think rationally. Neither Putin nor Stoltenberg take your feelings into account.
  - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
    >Sooner or later the civilized world will have to intervene. Sooner would be much better though. What are they waiting for? Russia to bomb Ukraine into an unlivable wasteland and have ~40 million refugees move west?