4 ms·

I think you're misinterpreting that phrase. Things like social constructs, money, borders, "us vs them", political parties, the belief that everything is going

by alar44 5y ago

I think you're misinterpreting that phrase. Things like social constructs, money, borders, "us vs them", political parties, the belief that everything is going to be ok, "a career", manners, traditions, language, etc, are all fantasies. Your map of the entire world in your head, it's all a fantasy. You have to believe that all of these things are real, otherwise daily life is hard to deal with. However, they are all made up. Everything is just a shitload of people playing an agreed game of pretend. I think most people who have taken psychedelics would understand that doesn't mean pink elephants, that's not what it's all about and doesn't actually happen (depending on what and how much you're taking, but most "normal" experiences generally don't have you seeing aliens and shit).

lolive 5y ago
Be careful with these kind of talks. Depending on the level of delusion of the person you are talking to, it can have devastating consequences. Just as a reminder, this quote from PKD is perfect to bring everyone back to the ground of planet earth: « Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. » The fact that the things you mention sound strange and unneeded at individual level, doesn’t mean it is not real [and useful?] as a social element.
- zozbot234 5y ago
  What if I told you that there's plenty of stuff that tends to go away if you stop believing in it, and is also very much part of the complex network of cause-and-effect relations we like to call "reality".
  - lolive 5y ago
    To answer your comment by taking the absolute opposite direction, let me share this video explaning what magic is, according to Alan Moore, and why it is a very real thing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1qACd0wHd0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1qACd0wHd0
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
c22 5y ago
I think these are less examples of "fantasy" and more reminders that we live in a human-constructed reality. This is a healthier way to look at it because it acknowledges that these systems have been evolved and implemented, often with clear intent, over the course of thousands of years by humans in order to solve human-related problems. They are not merely accidental byproducts of some shared mass-delusion. Rather than being illusory, this "agreed game of pretend" actually does, as it turns out, have far reaching and marked effects over the physical ("real") world (which is also largely human-built at the present). For me, the big epiphany from dabbling with LSD, was that this built environment (both physical and social) is malleable by me and other humans not because it's imaginary, but because it's literally our creation successively replacing more and more of what was here before. I think there is a danger in viewing human progress and social mores as pretend because it can lead to a subject questioning deeper aspects of reality that start to tread into pink elephant territory which I think might be more common in normal LSD users than you are giving credit for.
- alar44 5y ago
  We agree. I used pretend and imaginary as words to describe things being not inherently true. Like there isn't some inherent reason that we can infer from the laws of the universe that driving on the right or left hand side of the road is better. We just picked one way and ran with it. Adults are just big kids making up the rules as we go along, etc.

by alar44 5y ago

lolive 5y ago

Be careful with these kind of talks. Depending on the level of delusion of the person you are talking to, it can have devastating consequences. Just as a reminder, this quote from PKD is perfect to bring everyone back to the ground of planet earth: « Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. » The fact that the things you mention sound strange and unneeded at individual level, doesn’t mean it is not real [and useful?] as a social element.

zozbot234 5y ago
What if I told you that there's plenty of stuff that tends to go away if you stop believing in it, and is also very much part of the complex network of cause-and-effect relations we like to call "reality".
- lolive 5y ago
  To answer your comment by taking the absolute opposite direction, let me share this video explaning what magic is, according to Alan Moore, and why it is a very real thing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1qACd0wHd0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1qACd0wHd0

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

c22 5y ago

I think these are less examples of "fantasy" and more reminders that we live in a human-constructed reality. This is a healthier way to look at it because it acknowledges that these systems have been evolved and implemented, often with clear intent, over the course of thousands of years by humans in order to solve human-related problems. They are not merely accidental byproducts of some shared mass-delusion. Rather than being illusory, this "agreed game of pretend" actually does, as it turns out, have far reaching and marked effects over the physical ("real") world (which is also largely human-built at the present). For me, the big epiphany from dabbling with LSD, was that this built environment (both physical and social) is malleable by me and other humans not because it's imaginary, but because it's literally our creation successively replacing more and more of what was here before. I think there is a danger in viewing human progress and social mores as pretend because it can lead to a subject questioning deeper aspects of reality that start to tread into pink elephant territory which I think might be more common in normal LSD users than you are giving credit for.

alar44 5y ago
We agree. I used pretend and imaginary as words to describe things being not inherently true. Like there isn't some inherent reason that we can infer from the laws of the universe that driving on the right or left hand side of the road is better. We just picked one way and ran with it. Adults are just big kids making up the rules as we go along, etc.