5 ms·

Jeremy Usborne: It's just, Big Suze and everyone, they're coming over. And you might want to make yourself scarce because we're going to be taking some magic mu

by geenew 5y ago

Jeremy Usborne: It's just, Big Suze and everyone, they're coming over. And you might want to make yourself scarce because we're going to be taking some magic mushrooms. Mark Corrigan: Magic mushrooms? Jeremy Usborne: Yes, and we're gonna smash down the doors of perception so we can see all the stuff that... Mark Corrigan: Isn't really there. Jeremy Usborne: That is really there but we don't normally see because we're so transfixed on... Mark Corrigan: The stuff that is really there. Jeremy Usborne: Oh, it's so simple for you, isn't it? But the truth that you're so scared of hearing is that in fact reality and fantasy are exactly the same thing.

tux3 5y ago
>you're so scared of hearing is that in fact reality and fantasy are exactly the same thing. Yes, that is scary. And it should be! When someone stops being able to tell the difference between fantasy and reality, they join people suffering from psychosis in being vulnerable to delusions and hallucinations. It's often said that psychedelics mimic schizophrenia. I think we should not overstretch that analogy, but the attitude of some that artificial 5-HT2A agonism somehow grants your brain access to some deeper fantastical truth is worrying. You're nudging a lever that your own body built and placed. If there was value in permanently pushing it all the way, would the body have evolved to leave it at baseline?
- NateEag 5y ago
  > If there was value in permanently pushing it all the way, would the body have evolved to leave it at baseline? Sure. Evolution is not a designer. I'm no biologist, but I think it's pretty clear that evolution gets stuck in local optima all the time. See the common gripe about humans using the same pipe for breathing and eating. That said, I agree that messing with human biology is risky business for uncertain payoff. We simultaneously know mountains and nothing about ourselves and how we function.
- mistermann 5y ago
  > When someone stops being able to tell the difference between fantasy and reality, they join people suffering from psychosis in being vulnerable to delusions and hallucinations. Sometimes, sure. But how do you explain differing opinions perceived as facts (ask some people, they'll tell you!), or the common scenario whereby people speak as if they can read minds or the future (pop into any culture war thread right here on HN)? If one has these symptoms while in (or after) a drug-altered state of consciousness is this psychosis, but if one has them under normal consciousness is it not? > It's often said that psychedelics mimic schizophrenia. I think we should not overstretch that analogy, but the attitude of some that artificial 5-HT2A agonism somehow grants your brain access to some deeper fantastical truth is worrying. Do you believe that it does not grant your brain access to some deeper fantastical truth, at all? Do you believe that this belief is true?
- kinghtown 5y ago
  If it’s possible to lose your ability to tell the difference between Fantasy and reality merely by taking drugs or by willing it, perhaps it’s also easy for something to inject itself into reality as a wolf in sheep‘s clothing. Psychedelics are dangerous but not in that way. For me they have been a reminder to challenge assumptions, including those held by most people, about this place.
- alar44 5y ago
  I think you're misinterpreting that phrase. Things like social constructs, money, borders, "us vs them", political parties, the belief that everything is going to be ok, "a career", manners, traditions, language, etc, are all fantasies. Your map of the entire world in your head, it's all a fantasy. You have to believe that all of these things are real, otherwise daily life is hard to deal with. However, they are all made up. Everything is just a shitload of people playing an agreed game of pretend. I think most people who have taken psychedelics would understand that doesn't mean pink elephants, that's not what it's all about and doesn't actually happen (depending on what and how much you're taking, but most "normal" experiences generally don't have you seeing aliens and shit).
  - lolive 5y ago
    Be careful with these kind of talks. Depending on the level of delusion of the person you are talking to, it can have devastating consequences. Just as a reminder, this quote from PKD is perfect to bring everyone back to the ground of planet earth: « Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. » The fact that the things you mention sound strange and unneeded at individual level, doesn’t mean it is not real [and useful?] as a social element.
    - zozbot234 5y ago
      What if I told you that there's plenty of stuff that tends to go away if you stop believing in it, and is also very much part of the complex network of cause-and-effect relations we like to call "reality".
      - lolive 5y ago
        To answer your comment by taking the absolute opposite direction, let me share this video explaning what magic is, according to Alan Moore, and why it is a very real thing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1qACd0wHd0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1qACd0wHd0
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]

by geenew 5y ago

tux3 5y ago

>you're so scared of hearing is that in fact reality and fantasy are exactly the same thing. Yes, that is scary. And it should be! When someone stops being able to tell the difference between fantasy and reality, they join people suffering from psychosis in being vulnerable to delusions and hallucinations. It's often said that psychedelics mimic schizophrenia. I think we should not overstretch that analogy, but the attitude of some that artificial 5-HT2A agonism somehow grants your brain access to some deeper fantastical truth is worrying. You're nudging a lever that your own body built and placed. If there was value in permanently pushing it all the way, would the body have evolved to leave it at baseline?

NateEag 5y ago
> If there was value in permanently pushing it all the way, would the body have evolved to leave it at baseline? Sure. Evolution is not a designer. I'm no biologist, but I think it's pretty clear that evolution gets stuck in local optima all the time. See the common gripe about humans using the same pipe for breathing and eating. That said, I agree that messing with human biology is risky business for uncertain payoff. We simultaneously know mountains and nothing about ourselves and how we function.
mistermann 5y ago
> When someone stops being able to tell the difference between fantasy and reality, they join people suffering from psychosis in being vulnerable to delusions and hallucinations. Sometimes, sure. But how do you explain differing opinions perceived as facts (ask some people, they'll tell you!), or the common scenario whereby people speak as if they can read minds or the future (pop into any culture war thread right here on HN)? If one has these symptoms while in (or after) a drug-altered state of consciousness is this psychosis, but if one has them under normal consciousness is it not? > It's often said that psychedelics mimic schizophrenia. I think we should not overstretch that analogy, but the attitude of some that artificial 5-HT2A agonism somehow grants your brain access to some deeper fantastical truth is worrying. Do you believe that it does not grant your brain access to some deeper fantastical truth, at all? Do you believe that this belief is true?
kinghtown 5y ago
If it’s possible to lose your ability to tell the difference between Fantasy and reality merely by taking drugs or by willing it, perhaps it’s also easy for something to inject itself into reality as a wolf in sheep‘s clothing. Psychedelics are dangerous but not in that way. For me they have been a reminder to challenge assumptions, including those held by most people, about this place.
alar44 5y ago
I think you're misinterpreting that phrase. Things like social constructs, money, borders, "us vs them", political parties, the belief that everything is going to be ok, "a career", manners, traditions, language, etc, are all fantasies. Your map of the entire world in your head, it's all a fantasy. You have to believe that all of these things are real, otherwise daily life is hard to deal with. However, they are all made up. Everything is just a shitload of people playing an agreed game of pretend. I think most people who have taken psychedelics would understand that doesn't mean pink elephants, that's not what it's all about and doesn't actually happen (depending on what and how much you're taking, but most "normal" experiences generally don't have you seeing aliens and shit).
- lolive 5y ago
  Be careful with these kind of talks. Depending on the level of delusion of the person you are talking to, it can have devastating consequences. Just as a reminder, this quote from PKD is perfect to bring everyone back to the ground of planet earth: « Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. » The fact that the things you mention sound strange and unneeded at individual level, doesn’t mean it is not real [and useful?] as a social element.
  - zozbot234 5y ago
    What if I told you that there's plenty of stuff that tends to go away if you stop believing in it, and is also very much part of the complex network of cause-and-effect relations we like to call "reality".
    - lolive 5y ago
      To answer your comment by taking the absolute opposite direction, let me share this video explaning what magic is, according to Alan Moore, and why it is a very real thing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1qACd0wHd0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1qACd0wHd0
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]