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I don't think you understand the difference between https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budap

I don't think you understand the difference between https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Securit... and a meeting 'memo', when you say 'memorandum'. Hearsay is something someone says about what they've heard. Which is what you linked. Also, the plural of memorandum is 'memoranda'. I still haven't seen any treaty in your links. > Verbal guarantees were given on many occasions but conveneniently forgotten or dismissed later on. Putin also said, months ago, that he's not going to invade Ukraine and that the West is creating panic. But we're conveniently forgetting these 'verbal guarantees', right? > It is just a fact of life that smaller countries are more frequently invaded Yeah, 'just a fact of life'. NATO expansion into smaller countries, due to this 'fact of life' is a 'fact of life' itself.

331c8c71 5y ago
There was no signed agreement, I'm not disputing that. And I don't think it's valid to use the term "hearsay" for a transcript. Putin is putin, he's dictator with no regard for human life at this point. What I think though, is that the west was ruthless with Russia after SU collapse in the 90s and early 2000s which actually created the resentment we see now. https://youtu.be/8X7Ng75e5gQ https://youtu.be/8X7Ng75e5gQ This talk is a tad dramatic but very well captures the public sentiment I believe. Unlike eastern europian countries Russia couldn't just join eu/nato and started retaliating only when Georgia and Ukraine were on their path to nato. Not that unreasonable if you ask me. > Yeah, 'just a fact of life'. NATO expansion into smaller countries, due to this 'fact of life' is a 'fact of life' itself. As this war (unfortunately) which I believe wouldn't happen if ukrainian leaders were a bit smarter (and it wouldn't mean becoming Belarus - one could be smth like Kazakhstan in terms of foreign policy).
- decebalus1 5y ago
  > There was no signed agreement, I'm not disputing that. So why allegedly breaking this 'no signed agreement' held at a higher standard than Russia breaking actually signed agreements?

331c8c71 5y ago

There was no signed agreement, I'm not disputing that. And I don't think it's valid to use the term "hearsay" for a transcript. Putin is putin, he's dictator with no regard for human life at this point. What I think though, is that the west was ruthless with Russia after SU collapse in the 90s and early 2000s which actually created the resentment we see now. https://youtu.be/8X7Ng75e5gQ https://youtu.be/8X7Ng75e5gQ This talk is a tad dramatic but very well captures the public sentiment I believe. Unlike eastern europian countries Russia couldn't just join eu/nato and started retaliating only when Georgia and Ukraine were on their path to nato. Not that unreasonable if you ask me. > Yeah, 'just a fact of life'. NATO expansion into smaller countries, due to this 'fact of life' is a 'fact of life' itself. As this war (unfortunately) which I believe wouldn't happen if ukrainian leaders were a bit smarter (and it wouldn't mean becoming Belarus - one could be smth like Kazakhstan in terms of foreign policy).

decebalus1 5y ago
> There was no signed agreement, I'm not disputing that. So why allegedly breaking this 'no signed agreement' held at a higher standard than Russia breaking actually signed agreements?