4 ms·

orly? Alcohol is a very large problem, not least keeping people isolated and stuck in their lower self, see Timothy Learys writings on drugs and Chakras. http:

orly? Alcohol is a very large problem, not least keeping people isolated and stuck in their lower self, see Timothy Learys writings on drugs and Chakras. http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aa38.htm http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aa38.htm

irahul 15y ago
> orly? Oh, really? Yes. > Alcohol is a very large problem, not least keeping people isolated and stuck in their lower self, see Timothy Learys writings on drugs and Chakras. http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aa38.htm http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aa38.htm Alcohol is not a problem, being an alcoholic is. Breaking news, excess of anything is generally bad. By your reasoning, tv is bad since excess tv is bad, food is bad since excess food is bad...The list goes on and on.
- lewcypher 15y ago
  Fair enough, you have half a point there, though this is the whole 'guns don't kill people...' argument. In the context of western society alcohol abuse has been almost normalized, and binge drinking especially amongst young people is considered 'a fun night out'. You are right, alcohol abuse is the problem. As a society we abuse alcohol. TV and sports events are saturated with alcohol advertising, children are exposed from a very young age to alcohol (ab)use. Granted, there is nothing wrong with drinking in moderation, I enjoy a few beers myself. Though if there were an actually sane and evidenced based approach to drug policy, alcohol would be seen to be one of the most damaging drugs and would be regulated appropriately. Regulation meaning education, higher taxes on alcoholic beverages, a heavy restriction on advertising, and support for the sick people that are abusing it.
  - burgerbrain 15y ago
    Higher taxes on firearms works as a public policy, more or less. However, the 'higher taxes on dangerous things' model fails miserably when applied to addictive substances. This is evidenced directly in cigarette taxes, and indirectly in illegal substances. Addicts can literally chose their substance over food, and forget about rent and family members... A large portion of the suffering addicts endure can be traced directly back to financial hardships induced by the price of their substance. So not only does this sort of policy not work, but it is actively inhuman. Addicts need professional medical treatment, effectively telling them to 'just say no' is ignoring the reality of the situation. Not to mention you'll still have drunk rich jackasses in sportscars killing people (RIP Ryan Dunn)...
- philwelch 15y ago
  I don't think you're really responding to his point. I'm rather in favor of alcohol myself, but there are some things that are just plain bad regardless of quantity. Food is good in moderation because without food you starve to death, but Twinkies are bad regardless of quantity; not only are they nutrient poor junk food, but they taste pretty disgusting compared to any kind of proper cake. And it's hard to come up with any redeeming qualities of cigarettes, either.
  - burgerbrain 15y ago
    Twinkies harm nobody in moderation, you just don't like them. Confusing "I don't like it" with "it's not good" is an unfortunate but seemingly quite common problem in society. You'll often see this manifest with so called "second hand smoke". When confronted with facts (such as for example, anti-second-hand-smoke laws are only necessary because OSHA recognizes the scientific fact that it doesn't pose a credible risk to heath (OSHA has air quality standards, and other people smoking does not trip them)), they often fall back on "well it smells bad".
potatolicious 15y ago
Lots of things are problem for people. World of Warcraft also does a marvelous job of keeping people isolated and stuck in their lower self. That doesn't mean: - the majority of its users can do use it responsibly without adverse effect on their lives and those around them - it needs to be banned, or even subject to extensive regulation - the act itself is the root cause of said destructive behavior. People who let WoW ruin their lives often had other severe issues to begin with. Among other things that can be highly self-destructive (and destructive to those around them) in the wrong hands: sports cars, the gym, fast food (>25% of the USA is obese, after all), online gaming, poker, literature... I could go on. Hell, ignoring the moral side of it for a moment, legislating morality just simply doesn't work. Disregarding the justifications of Prohibition, from a practical perspective it just made things worse: it created a major avenue of organized crime, and failed to stop the flow of alcohol anyways. If the people want to drink, or smoke pot, or play poker, or log onto WoW, or chow down on a burger, you can't stop it.

irahul 15y ago

> orly? Oh, really? Yes. > Alcohol is a very large problem, not least keeping people isolated and stuck in their lower self, see Timothy Learys writings on drugs and Chakras. http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aa38.htm http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aa38.htm Alcohol is not a problem, being an alcoholic is. Breaking news, excess of anything is generally bad. By your reasoning, tv is bad since excess tv is bad, food is bad since excess food is bad...The list goes on and on.

lewcypher 15y ago
Fair enough, you have half a point there, though this is the whole 'guns don't kill people...' argument. In the context of western society alcohol abuse has been almost normalized, and binge drinking especially amongst young people is considered 'a fun night out'. You are right, alcohol abuse is the problem. As a society we abuse alcohol. TV and sports events are saturated with alcohol advertising, children are exposed from a very young age to alcohol (ab)use. Granted, there is nothing wrong with drinking in moderation, I enjoy a few beers myself. Though if there were an actually sane and evidenced based approach to drug policy, alcohol would be seen to be one of the most damaging drugs and would be regulated appropriately. Regulation meaning education, higher taxes on alcoholic beverages, a heavy restriction on advertising, and support for the sick people that are abusing it.
- burgerbrain 15y ago
  Higher taxes on firearms works as a public policy, more or less. However, the 'higher taxes on dangerous things' model fails miserably when applied to addictive substances. This is evidenced directly in cigarette taxes, and indirectly in illegal substances. Addicts can literally chose their substance over food, and forget about rent and family members... A large portion of the suffering addicts endure can be traced directly back to financial hardships induced by the price of their substance. So not only does this sort of policy not work, but it is actively inhuman. Addicts need professional medical treatment, effectively telling them to 'just say no' is ignoring the reality of the situation. Not to mention you'll still have drunk rich jackasses in sportscars killing people (RIP Ryan Dunn)...
philwelch 15y ago
I don't think you're really responding to his point. I'm rather in favor of alcohol myself, but there are some things that are just plain bad regardless of quantity. Food is good in moderation because without food you starve to death, but Twinkies are bad regardless of quantity; not only are they nutrient poor junk food, but they taste pretty disgusting compared to any kind of proper cake. And it's hard to come up with any redeeming qualities of cigarettes, either.
- burgerbrain 15y ago
  Twinkies harm nobody in moderation, you just don't like them. Confusing "I don't like it" with "it's not good" is an unfortunate but seemingly quite common problem in society. You'll often see this manifest with so called "second hand smoke". When confronted with facts (such as for example, anti-second-hand-smoke laws are only necessary because OSHA recognizes the scientific fact that it doesn't pose a credible risk to heath (OSHA has air quality standards, and other people smoking does not trip them)), they often fall back on "well it smells bad".

potatolicious 15y ago

Lots of things are problem for people. World of Warcraft also does a marvelous job of keeping people isolated and stuck in their lower self. That doesn't mean: - the majority of its users can do use it responsibly without adverse effect on their lives and those around them - it needs to be banned, or even subject to extensive regulation - the act itself is the root cause of said destructive behavior. People who let WoW ruin their lives often had other severe issues to begin with. Among other things that can be highly self-destructive (and destructive to those around them) in the wrong hands: sports cars, the gym, fast food (>25% of the USA is obese, after all), online gaming, poker, literature... I could go on. Hell, ignoring the moral side of it for a moment, legislating morality just simply doesn't work. Disregarding the justifications of Prohibition, from a practical perspective it just made things worse: it created a major avenue of organized crime, and failed to stop the flow of alcohol anyways. If the people want to drink, or smoke pot, or play poker, or log onto WoW, or chow down on a burger, you can't stop it.