5 ms·

The Payne study on USS Roosevelt has a very small sample size compared to the number of confounding variables (the paper reports that they allowed the ~300 resp

The Payne study on USS Roosevelt has a very small sample size compared to the number of confounding variables (the paper reports that they allowed the ~300 respondents to select multiple responses, including adherence to social distancing, interacting with people later known to have Covid, etc, etc. It also covered one outbreak over 4 days). Wang's study, as well has having a very small sample number, concludes that other things like "taking a taxi one or more less times per week", "having a pet", and "not going to a farmer's market" are about as effective in reducing risk to the person as wearing a mask. The Doung-Ngern study is a little better, but still I am not sure how they can conclude that one risk can be narrowly identified with a relatively small sample size and relatively many confounding factors (ie, mask wearers are probably less likely to go out, go indoors in public spaces, etc). >or a negative one ('wearing a mask does not protect the wearer' or 'a mask probably won't protect you'). No, you need to make a positive, proven statement in the first place (ie, "wear this mask to protect yourself"), otherwise you fall victim to the "Lucky Underpants" effect. I wear my lucky underpants to every sports game, and my team always win. If you tell me "no, they don't, that's ridiculous", then are you saying that you will also need to prove that to me? >offering significant (although not irreproachable) evidence None of those studies you linked are significant evidence. They are weak-sauce.

d1sxeyes 5y ago
> I wear my lucky underpants to every sports game, and my team always win. If you tell me "no, they don't, that's ridiculous", then are you saying that you will also need to prove that to me? I bring a baseball bat to every baseball game. One time, I didn't bring a baseball bat, and I didn't hit a single run. Do I have to prove it to you that having a baseball bat helps me hit runs? Again, it's the person who makes the assertion who needs to back it up. I didn't assert that 'a mask probably won't protect you', I responded to it.
- throw_life 5y ago
  Yes, you do. Bringing a bat or not does not necessarily mean you will hit a run. >Again, it's the person who makes the assertion who needs to back it up. It sure is. I'm not going to wear a bit of cloth over my face to filter out viruses until someone convinces me that it does me any good (note, we are talking about masks helping the wearer). Much like I'm not going to wear my lucky underpants to every sports game, unless someone convinces me it is necessary.
  - d1sxeyes 5y ago
    > I'm not going to wear a bit of cloth over my face to filter out viruses until someone convinces me that it does me any good (note, we are talking about masks helping the wearer). You are misrepresenting the course of the discussion. Someone asserted masks probably aren’t helpful. I countered with some studies suggesting that that’s wrong. You’ve attacked (fairly) the studies I’ve presented, but not offered any support for the original assertion. Anyway, even if I have failed to convince you, would you consider wearing a mask for the benefit of those around you?

d1sxeyes 5y ago

> I wear my lucky underpants to every sports game, and my team always win. If you tell me "no, they don't, that's ridiculous", then are you saying that you will also need to prove that to me? I bring a baseball bat to every baseball game. One time, I didn't bring a baseball bat, and I didn't hit a single run. Do I have to prove it to you that having a baseball bat helps me hit runs? Again, it's the person who makes the assertion who needs to back it up. I didn't assert that 'a mask probably won't protect you', I responded to it.

throw_life 5y ago
Yes, you do. Bringing a bat or not does not necessarily mean you will hit a run. >Again, it's the person who makes the assertion who needs to back it up. It sure is. I'm not going to wear a bit of cloth over my face to filter out viruses until someone convinces me that it does me any good (note, we are talking about masks helping the wearer). Much like I'm not going to wear my lucky underpants to every sports game, unless someone convinces me it is necessary.
- d1sxeyes 5y ago
  > I'm not going to wear a bit of cloth over my face to filter out viruses until someone convinces me that it does me any good (note, we are talking about masks helping the wearer). You are misrepresenting the course of the discussion. Someone asserted masks probably aren’t helpful. I countered with some studies suggesting that that’s wrong. You’ve attacked (fairly) the studies I’ve presented, but not offered any support for the original assertion. Anyway, even if I have failed to convince you, would you consider wearing a mask for the benefit of those around you?