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No one in the government cares that you are purchasing a dildo. No one at Visa or Mastercard either. There are other forms of currency as well, specifically ETH

by dlp211 5y ago

No one in the government cares that you are purchasing a dildo. No one at Visa or Mastercard either. There are other forms of currency as well, specifically ETH, BTC, and other cryptos that will continue to power black market purchases. Your cash transactions also aren't as anonymous as you think they are. You need to be essentially completely analogue, and even then, you probably are still being tracked somehow.

ajsnigrutin 5y ago
You sure it doesn't? Look at for example the ashley madison hack... in some countries adultery is punishable by death. Buying gay porn means you're gay... death. Maybe not in "developed countries", maybe not today, not tomorrow, but those records stay... If you pay in cash, and the political situation changes, noone will remember when you were there and what you bought two years ago. This is a thing that helps noone, except the people on top and wannabe dictators.
- dlp211 5y ago
  The existence of shitty countries doing shitty things to their citizens is not enough reason to not do reasonable things in developed countries. And again, f'ing crypto. This is the entire reason for crypto, to execute black market purchases (even if no one wants to make that the headline use of crypto). And if you think that your all cash purchases aren't being tracked, I have some bad news for you. If you walk into a store with a cell phone, you are being tracked, transaction and all. Facial recognition is going to be used the same way in those shitty countries (see China), so even going analog isn't going to save you. There is no anonymity anymore unless you literally eschew all society and go live in the wilderness. Even then, it's not a guarantee.
  - ajsnigrutin 5y ago
    But it's not centralized. Yes, the gay porn store might have a VHS security cam, and the phone can locate you to the shopping center where the gay porn store is, and also walmart and home depot, but none of this is centralized, and none of those things can be easily done en masse. Look at tracking for example... even in ancient history, someone could follow you around whereever you went, but that meant a dedicated person following you, and only you. For someone else, another dedicated person. And a wage, someone to replace them after their workday is done, etc. Now, with mobile phones, you can track 95% of the population just by doing a simple database query. There is a huge difference between those two levels of tracking.
    - yunohn 5y ago
      I completely agree with your line of reasoning - there is definitely a massive difference between cash transactions being potentially tracked by CCTV, and a centralized ledger… I’m not sure what the other commenter is getting at, other than a weird attempt to shift the Overton window on financial privacy expectations.
abeppu 5y ago
"The government" may not care whether you're buying sex toys. But lots of people seem to care, and that gives that information some power to do harm. The Hamilton Phase 1 summary doc has the following paragraph: > The main functional difference between our two architectures is that one materializes an ordered history for all transactions, while the other does not. ... In the other architecture, we can audit the set of unspent funds to make sure they were created correctly. Storing the history of transactions implies the central transaction processor can reconstruct the transaction graph, which, in combination with other data sources, could reveal sensitive user information. Who would have access to that reconstructed transaction graph/history, and under what contexts? How would that be controlled or enforced? NSA staff used their mass surveillance tools to spy on spouses and exes, after all. Even if you don't say anything in personal communication that the government should be concerned about, you can be legitimately creeped out by mass surveillance.
hitpointdrew 5y ago
>No one in the government cares that you are purchasing a dildo. I FUCKING CARE. It isn't the point if the the government cares. The government has no business knowing what I spend my money on, who I spend my time with, or what the hell I talk about.
- danielmarkbruce 5y ago
  You have cash, you have IOUs, private contracts, all kinds of ways to pay which are difficult to track. I wouldn't worry too much if that's your concern.
foxyv 5y ago
> No one in the government cares that you are purchasing a dildo. As a resident of the great state of Texas, I must disagree. There are thousands, if not millions of assholes, that care if I can purchase a dildo. Possibly just in this state alone.

by dlp211 5y ago

ajsnigrutin 5y ago

You sure it doesn't? Look at for example the ashley madison hack... in some countries adultery is punishable by death. Buying gay porn means you're gay... death. Maybe not in "developed countries", maybe not today, not tomorrow, but those records stay... If you pay in cash, and the political situation changes, noone will remember when you were there and what you bought two years ago. This is a thing that helps noone, except the people on top and wannabe dictators.

dlp211 5y ago
The existence of shitty countries doing shitty things to their citizens is not enough reason to not do reasonable things in developed countries. And again, f'ing crypto. This is the entire reason for crypto, to execute black market purchases (even if no one wants to make that the headline use of crypto). And if you think that your all cash purchases aren't being tracked, I have some bad news for you. If you walk into a store with a cell phone, you are being tracked, transaction and all. Facial recognition is going to be used the same way in those shitty countries (see China), so even going analog isn't going to save you. There is no anonymity anymore unless you literally eschew all society and go live in the wilderness. Even then, it's not a guarantee.
- ajsnigrutin 5y ago
  But it's not centralized. Yes, the gay porn store might have a VHS security cam, and the phone can locate you to the shopping center where the gay porn store is, and also walmart and home depot, but none of this is centralized, and none of those things can be easily done en masse. Look at tracking for example... even in ancient history, someone could follow you around whereever you went, but that meant a dedicated person following you, and only you. For someone else, another dedicated person. And a wage, someone to replace them after their workday is done, etc. Now, with mobile phones, you can track 95% of the population just by doing a simple database query. There is a huge difference between those two levels of tracking.
  - yunohn 5y ago
    I completely agree with your line of reasoning - there is definitely a massive difference between cash transactions being potentially tracked by CCTV, and a centralized ledger… I’m not sure what the other commenter is getting at, other than a weird attempt to shift the Overton window on financial privacy expectations.

abeppu 5y ago

"The government" may not care whether you're buying sex toys. But lots of people seem to care, and that gives that information some power to do harm. The Hamilton Phase 1 summary doc has the following paragraph: > The main functional difference between our two architectures is that one materializes an ordered history for all transactions, while the other does not. ... In the other architecture, we can audit the set of unspent funds to make sure they were created correctly. Storing the history of transactions implies the central transaction processor can reconstruct the transaction graph, which, in combination with other data sources, could reveal sensitive user information. Who would have access to that reconstructed transaction graph/history, and under what contexts? How would that be controlled or enforced? NSA staff used their mass surveillance tools to spy on spouses and exes, after all. Even if you don't say anything in personal communication that the government should be concerned about, you can be legitimately creeped out by mass surveillance.

hitpointdrew 5y ago

>No one in the government cares that you are purchasing a dildo. I FUCKING CARE. It isn't the point if the the government cares. The government has no business knowing what I spend my money on, who I spend my time with, or what the hell I talk about.

danielmarkbruce 5y ago
You have cash, you have IOUs, private contracts, all kinds of ways to pay which are difficult to track. I wouldn't worry too much if that's your concern.

foxyv 5y ago

> No one in the government cares that you are purchasing a dildo. As a resident of the great state of Texas, I must disagree. There are thousands, if not millions of assholes, that care if I can purchase a dildo. Possibly just in this state alone.