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I live in Ann Arbor (pretty green area) and drive a hybrid Camry so my data may be way off-but around here I see plenty of hybrids. Not as many large cars as my

by a2tech 15y ago

I live in Ann Arbor (pretty green area) and drive a hybrid Camry so my data may be way off-but around here I see plenty of hybrids. Not as many large cars as my Camry (which btw is a fantastic vehicle only made better by being a hybrid) but loads of Priuses (Prii?) and Honda Civic hybrids. A physcian I know even drives one of those monster Toyota Sequoia hybrids.

abduhl 15y ago
Could you explain why being a hybrid makes the Camry better? Also, why did you pick the hybrid instead of the standard version?
- noonespecial 15y ago
  I made this choice just recently. It came down to the civic hybrid vs the standard civic. The hybrid was about $10,000 more. A quick calculation showed that I'd have to drive the hybrid 584,795 miles to break even on the extra cost at today's fuel cost. Put another way, I only plan to keep the car to around 100,000 miles. If the hybrid cost more than $1717 above the standard, I'm losing out. Put me in the hybrids are hype column.
  - jseliger 15y ago
    "Put me in the hybrids are hype column." In some ways, hybrids are large-scale social/economic insurance. If gas prices really spike, consumers will have a (relatively) rapid substitution for conventional cars. Plus, a lot of people claim to care about the environment. At least cars offer a modestly tangible way normal people in normal circumstances can show whether they actually do enough to spend modestly more to do some minor good for said environment. Plus (part two) a lot of jingoistic America-first types can decide whether they really want to help stick it to those people who jingoistic types don't like but who are selling lots of oil or whether those jingoistic types are all hat and no cattle. I find the number of people who favor or favored U.S. intervention in Iraq but who drive pickup trucks to be somewhat puzzling.
    - babycakes 15y ago
      I purchased my Civic hybrid as insurance. At the time, gas was $4.65/gal, so I decided to take the chance. Turns out that it was the peak in 2008. You win some, you lose some. The Civic is still a nice low maintenance car with a 10 year, 100k mile battery warranty. When we needed a second car last year, I went for a VW Jetta TDI, and it has been a very good decision. The car averages 34 MPG with my mixed highway and arterial road commute.
  - pkulak 15y ago
    No, you don't have to drive half a million miles, the car just has to have an overall lifetime of at least that. Otherwise, you're saying that all your investment would be used up by the time you sell it after 100,000 miles, which will hardly be the case; the used hybrid will still be worth considerably more than a used non-hybrid.
    - fr0sty 15y ago
      Do you have a source for your "considerably more" claim? Does that claim factor in the inevitable battery pack replacement?
      - pkulak 15y ago
        I just did a price check for a 2008 Camry SE and 2008 Prius. They both cost about the same new ($23000), but the Prius is now worth about $500 more. Not only would you not have lost your initial investment in a hybrid power train, but it depreciated slower. But, let's say in 2008 you thought that hybrids were all hype and bought a Corolla instead. According to KBB, you paid $16000 for your Corolla and I paid $23000 for my Prius. My Prius is now worth $15000, so I lost $8000 to depreciation. But your Corolla is now worth $9500, so you lost $6500. The difference in the depreciation numbers is about the same ratio as the difference in initial price, so the argument isn't really against hybrids, per say, but that when you pay more for a car, you lose more in depreciation. Of course, in 3+ years I've probably saved a couple grand in gas, which pushes my operating costs _below_ yours, even though you bought a very cheap, economical car and didn't buy into all the hybrid hype. And as to battery pack replacement... well, who knows. But there are plenty of original Priuses on the road right now on the original packs; which makes them over 10 years old. It's just a maintenance cost. When a car is 10 years old, you pay a lot for maintenance. Replacing a timing belt is not cheap either!

by a2tech 15y ago

abduhl 15y ago

Could you explain why being a hybrid makes the Camry better? Also, why did you pick the hybrid instead of the standard version?

noonespecial 15y ago
I made this choice just recently. It came down to the civic hybrid vs the standard civic. The hybrid was about $10,000 more. A quick calculation showed that I'd have to drive the hybrid 584,795 miles to break even on the extra cost at today's fuel cost. Put another way, I only plan to keep the car to around 100,000 miles. If the hybrid cost more than $1717 above the standard, I'm losing out. Put me in the hybrids are hype column.
- jseliger 15y ago
  "Put me in the hybrids are hype column." In some ways, hybrids are large-scale social/economic insurance. If gas prices really spike, consumers will have a (relatively) rapid substitution for conventional cars. Plus, a lot of people claim to care about the environment. At least cars offer a modestly tangible way normal people in normal circumstances can show whether they actually do enough to spend modestly more to do some minor good for said environment. Plus (part two) a lot of jingoistic America-first types can decide whether they really want to help stick it to those people who jingoistic types don't like but who are selling lots of oil or whether those jingoistic types are all hat and no cattle. I find the number of people who favor or favored U.S. intervention in Iraq but who drive pickup trucks to be somewhat puzzling.
  - babycakes 15y ago
    I purchased my Civic hybrid as insurance. At the time, gas was $4.65/gal, so I decided to take the chance. Turns out that it was the peak in 2008. You win some, you lose some. The Civic is still a nice low maintenance car with a 10 year, 100k mile battery warranty. When we needed a second car last year, I went for a VW Jetta TDI, and it has been a very good decision. The car averages 34 MPG with my mixed highway and arterial road commute.
- pkulak 15y ago
  No, you don't have to drive half a million miles, the car just has to have an overall lifetime of at least that. Otherwise, you're saying that all your investment would be used up by the time you sell it after 100,000 miles, which will hardly be the case; the used hybrid will still be worth considerably more than a used non-hybrid.
  - fr0sty 15y ago
    Do you have a source for your "considerably more" claim? Does that claim factor in the inevitable battery pack replacement?
    - pkulak 15y ago
      I just did a price check for a 2008 Camry SE and 2008 Prius. They both cost about the same new ($23000), but the Prius is now worth about $500 more. Not only would you not have lost your initial investment in a hybrid power train, but it depreciated slower. But, let's say in 2008 you thought that hybrids were all hype and bought a Corolla instead. According to KBB, you paid $16000 for your Corolla and I paid $23000 for my Prius. My Prius is now worth $15000, so I lost $8000 to depreciation. But your Corolla is now worth $9500, so you lost $6500. The difference in the depreciation numbers is about the same ratio as the difference in initial price, so the argument isn't really against hybrids, per say, but that when you pay more for a car, you lose more in depreciation. Of course, in 3+ years I've probably saved a couple grand in gas, which pushes my operating costs _below_ yours, even though you bought a very cheap, economical car and didn't buy into all the hybrid hype. And as to battery pack replacement... well, who knows. But there are plenty of original Priuses on the road right now on the original packs; which makes them over 10 years old. It's just a maintenance cost. When a car is 10 years old, you pay a lot for maintenance. Replacing a timing belt is not cheap either!