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Fighting hard to defend a position you don’t personally believe in is an important part of learning that there are meritorious arguments for positions you disag

Fighting hard to defend a position you don’t personally believe in is an important part of learning that there are meritorious arguments for positions you disagree with; which is itself a foundation for learning to engage productively with others. High school debate was foundational for the person I became as an adult, because I learned that nuance isn’t just something we pretend exists; it is a very real and very important part of learning to communicate with others. I won many rounds of debate arguing against my own beliefs because I was able to distance my feelings and come up with a compelling argument anyways.

PaulHoule 5y ago
On one level I see where you're coming from but I'd say that alienation from yourself that you valorize is the fast track to become this guy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eichmann_in_Jerusalem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eichmann_in_Jerusalem That said there is something for understanding a domain well enough that you can explain all of the major points of view around it. I got strong-armed by somebody on the bus into talking about the high price of gas, the war, January 6th and similar topics and after I got off I was praised by another passenger for being "incredibly diplomatic" for acknowledging the position of Vladimir Putin and Trump supporters while explaining why a No Fly Zone isn't a realistic policy. There's a big difference between that and fighting for a POV I don't believe in.
- gnicholas 5y ago
  If Debate Team were the fast track to being a literal Nazi, I'd think higher education would have less of a pronounced left-leaning bent. More likely, learning to steel-man arguments is a fast track for understanding people unlike yourself and being able to spot opportunities for compromise or win-win solutions.
  - PaulHoule 5y ago
    Well, maybe a Nazi is overdoing it but the McKinsey group is bad enough.
    - gnicholas 5y ago
      Is it just me, or did you just ghost-edit your previous comment, adding everything after the Nazi citation? I don't mind grammatical or even minor wording fixes, but changing the entire tone of a comment typically requires an 'edit' flag so that readers aren't misled/confused.

PaulHoule 5y ago

On one level I see where you're coming from but I'd say that alienation from yourself that you valorize is the fast track to become this guy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eichmann_in_Jerusalem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eichmann_in_Jerusalem That said there is something for understanding a domain well enough that you can explain all of the major points of view around it. I got strong-armed by somebody on the bus into talking about the high price of gas, the war, January 6th and similar topics and after I got off I was praised by another passenger for being "incredibly diplomatic" for acknowledging the position of Vladimir Putin and Trump supporters while explaining why a No Fly Zone isn't a realistic policy. There's a big difference between that and fighting for a POV I don't believe in.

gnicholas 5y ago
If Debate Team were the fast track to being a literal Nazi, I'd think higher education would have less of a pronounced left-leaning bent. More likely, learning to steel-man arguments is a fast track for understanding people unlike yourself and being able to spot opportunities for compromise or win-win solutions.
- PaulHoule 5y ago
  Well, maybe a Nazi is overdoing it but the McKinsey group is bad enough.
  - gnicholas 5y ago
    Is it just me, or did you just ghost-edit your previous comment, adding everything after the Nazi citation? I don't mind grammatical or even minor wording fixes, but changing the entire tone of a comment typically requires an 'edit' flag so that readers aren't misled/confused.