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> because where are the web games? All over the place. I see them regularly posted to HN. Did you miss the entire '.io' trend of web games? The market is small

by shkkmo 5y ago

> because where are the web games? All over the place. I see them regularly posted to HN. Did you miss the entire '.io' trend of web games? The market is smaller because it was partially eaten by native mobile games, but it is alive an well. > Why aren't they playable on mobile safari? Aren't they? > Why don't the web standards come with a dev environment. That's not what standards are. There are a plethora of web development tools and frameworks that target the web. All of these target different needs and visions. > Is Apple justified robbing us of a Maker's renaissance era because it wasn't mobile ready at the literal dawn of mobile computing? > I disagree with the assessment that Adobe was a bad steward because I saw them trying with my own eyes. Adobe abandoned mobile flash development in 2011, when mobile was a fast growing, but still small part of the market. This is also when android more or less caught up with iOS in terms of adoption. If adobe had continued investing in mobile development, would flash have survived? In retrospect, this is the decision that put the final nail in flash's coffin as mobile won the eyeballs. If Apple had included flash in iOS, would that actually have saved flash? Was a closed source, proprietary ecosystem that was late to mobile ever really going to stay the dominant media delivery platform or even survive? We don't know the answer to these questions but placing all the blame on Steve Jobs is simply too simplistic to be true.

somehnacct3757 5y ago
The market is smaller because the devs can't make money. Since portals were an advertising and profit share model, reach mattered. As more and more users switched to mobile browsers, the games can't run there, and browser gaming can't pay developers and it dies. Now who made it so that the mobile browsers can't play these games? I thought the letter said that open web standards had made Flash obsolete? Apple's ecosystem didn't naturally cannibalize flash gaming. It conquered it with violence. Next: They weren't playable on mobile Safari, no. Safari finally supports WebGL 2 as of Sept 2021. A full 4 years after the other browser vendors supported it. Why drag their heels on this open web standard? Does their platform have something to lose from a little competition? You condemned Adobe for being 'late' to mobile (citation needed) but don't condemn Apple for being late to a web standard meant to replace Flash like they said in their original FUD letter? Your retelling of Adobe's history is wrong. They were still very much invested in mobile development up until the end of Flash. In fact to this day you can still use AIR to target iOS and Android with native apps. They release updates regularly. It's very clear that you don't have any idea what you're talking about, have not interacted with these companies professionally, and have not used the technologies in question or even followed along. The only way to make sense of the facts is to accept that Apple lied in their letter because it was good for Apple's business and that goodness came at the expense of end-user choice.
- shkkmo 5y ago
  > As more and more users switched to mobile browsers, the games can't run there, and browser gaming can't pay developers and it dies. As an android user with an embarsingly high level on Kongregate back in the day, I can tell you that almost no flash games worked well on mobile, even in browsers that did support flash. The mobile flash gaming experience was just bad, which is a big part of why it died. > Your retelling of Adobe's history is wrong. They were still very much invested in mobile development up until the end of Flash. In fact to this day you can still use AIR to target iOS and Android with native apps. They release updates regularly. Yes, Adobe abandoned mobile flash in favor of AIR targeting html5 and native apps in 2011. That is exactly my point, Adobe abandoned mobile flash which was another big part of why flash died. See: https://www.pcworld.com/article/478103/adobe_ends_mobile_flash_development_report.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/478103/adobe_ends_mobile_fla... > It's very clear that you don't have any idea what you're talking about, have not interacted with these companies professionally, and have not used the technologies in question or even followed along. It's clear you don't have a real argument or facts to back it up if you resort to this kind of crap.

by shkkmo 5y ago

somehnacct3757 5y ago

The market is smaller because the devs can't make money. Since portals were an advertising and profit share model, reach mattered. As more and more users switched to mobile browsers, the games can't run there, and browser gaming can't pay developers and it dies. Now who made it so that the mobile browsers can't play these games? I thought the letter said that open web standards had made Flash obsolete? Apple's ecosystem didn't naturally cannibalize flash gaming. It conquered it with violence. Next: They weren't playable on mobile Safari, no. Safari finally supports WebGL 2 as of Sept 2021. A full 4 years after the other browser vendors supported it. Why drag their heels on this open web standard? Does their platform have something to lose from a little competition? You condemned Adobe for being 'late' to mobile (citation needed) but don't condemn Apple for being late to a web standard meant to replace Flash like they said in their original FUD letter? Your retelling of Adobe's history is wrong. They were still very much invested in mobile development up until the end of Flash. In fact to this day you can still use AIR to target iOS and Android with native apps. They release updates regularly. It's very clear that you don't have any idea what you're talking about, have not interacted with these companies professionally, and have not used the technologies in question or even followed along. The only way to make sense of the facts is to accept that Apple lied in their letter because it was good for Apple's business and that goodness came at the expense of end-user choice.

shkkmo 5y ago
> As more and more users switched to mobile browsers, the games can't run there, and browser gaming can't pay developers and it dies. As an android user with an embarsingly high level on Kongregate back in the day, I can tell you that almost no flash games worked well on mobile, even in browsers that did support flash. The mobile flash gaming experience was just bad, which is a big part of why it died. > Your retelling of Adobe's history is wrong. They were still very much invested in mobile development up until the end of Flash. In fact to this day you can still use AIR to target iOS and Android with native apps. They release updates regularly. Yes, Adobe abandoned mobile flash in favor of AIR targeting html5 and native apps in 2011. That is exactly my point, Adobe abandoned mobile flash which was another big part of why flash died. See: https://www.pcworld.com/article/478103/adobe_ends_mobile_flash_development_report.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/478103/adobe_ends_mobile_fla... > It's very clear that you don't have any idea what you're talking about, have not interacted with these companies professionally, and have not used the technologies in question or even followed along. It's clear you don't have a real argument or facts to back it up if you resort to this kind of crap.