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So far. One can be surprised they haven't taken these cities earlier, but I wouldn't bet Ukraine won't accept Putin's requests at some point in exchange for the

So far. One can be surprised they haven't taken these cities earlier, but I wouldn't bet Ukraine won't accept Putin's requests at some point in exchange for the end of the war. (commitment not to enter NATO/Europe + demilitarization + recognition of Crimea being part of Russia + independence of Donetsk and Luhansk republics). Neither NATO nor Europe wants to intervene and China will continue to support Russia to compensate for the sanctions.

sidibe 5y ago
There is no way Ukraine accepts the same demands that Russia had at the start of the war. I think the most they'll give is recognize the territory Russia or separatists had at the start of the war, and that's only if Russia makes serious push on central Kyiv. No way they give up on NATO at this point knowing Russia could just do it again in a few years
Mikeb85 5y ago
I'm optimistic the Ukrainians will hold on longer than oligarch and military support for Putin...
birdyrooster 5y ago
If NATO wasn't confident that Ukraine would stop Russia, they would have already changed tactics.
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  Why change tactics when things are working out for NATO The longer and more devastating the war, the better. Ukraine doesn't have to win for a NATO victory, russia just has to be damaged militarily and fanatically.
  - birdyrooster 5y ago
    I would have agreed with you day one of the invasion but things have shifted dramatically. Now that so much of NATO has put its weight behind it, Ukraine must win. If Ukraine loses it shows how weak NATO is when it unites (which it has done as has been spoken about ad nausea in the media).
    - s1artibartfast 5y ago
      I think that is a valid point, but it also very clear to the public that NATO is not putting its full weight behind it, and that it is not willing to engage directly militarily. I think the public barometer of success will be based more on damage to Russia, than the outcome for Ukraine. If people see Russia suffer for the invasion and know that NATO held back, they will tolerate the outcome
      - birdyrooster 5y ago
        US president just tweeted that Russia will never take Ukraine https://twitter.com/potus/status/1501359427454132227?s=21 https://twitter.com/potus/status/1501359427454132227?s=21
dragonwriter 5y ago
> I wouldn't bet Ukraine won't accept Putin's requests at some point in exchange for the end of the war Except in the negotiations in Belarus whose content hasn't been disclosed, Putin has never released terms that Ukraine alone could meet; his ultimatum before the war had most of its terms directed at NATO, not Ukraine, though the gun was pointed at Ukraine. Presumably, terms for Ukraine alone would be much steeper to make up for what he won't be getting from NATO.

sidibe 5y ago

There is no way Ukraine accepts the same demands that Russia had at the start of the war. I think the most they'll give is recognize the territory Russia or separatists had at the start of the war, and that's only if Russia makes serious push on central Kyiv. No way they give up on NATO at this point knowing Russia could just do it again in a few years

Mikeb85 5y ago

I'm optimistic the Ukrainians will hold on longer than oligarch and military support for Putin...

birdyrooster 5y ago

If NATO wasn't confident that Ukraine would stop Russia, they would have already changed tactics.

s1artibartfast 5y ago
Why change tactics when things are working out for NATO The longer and more devastating the war, the better. Ukraine doesn't have to win for a NATO victory, russia just has to be damaged militarily and fanatically.
- birdyrooster 5y ago
  I would have agreed with you day one of the invasion but things have shifted dramatically. Now that so much of NATO has put its weight behind it, Ukraine must win. If Ukraine loses it shows how weak NATO is when it unites (which it has done as has been spoken about ad nausea in the media).
  - s1artibartfast 5y ago
    I think that is a valid point, but it also very clear to the public that NATO is not putting its full weight behind it, and that it is not willing to engage directly militarily. I think the public barometer of success will be based more on damage to Russia, than the outcome for Ukraine. If people see Russia suffer for the invasion and know that NATO held back, they will tolerate the outcome
    - birdyrooster 5y ago
      US president just tweeted that Russia will never take Ukraine https://twitter.com/potus/status/1501359427454132227?s=21 https://twitter.com/potus/status/1501359427454132227?s=21

dragonwriter 5y ago

> I wouldn't bet Ukraine won't accept Putin's requests at some point in exchange for the end of the war Except in the negotiations in Belarus whose content hasn't been disclosed, Putin has never released terms that Ukraine alone could meet; his ultimatum before the war had most of its terms directed at NATO, not Ukraine, though the gun was pointed at Ukraine. Presumably, terms for Ukraine alone would be much steeper to make up for what he won't be getting from NATO.