5 ms·

Daniel Ellsberg talks psychedelics, consciousness and world peace

82 points by pmoriarty 5y ago

WaxedChewbacca 5y ago
I think it's easy to see that psychedelics, while valuable, aren't exactly a direct key to world peace. Why? Because we won't have peace in the world until we have peace in people. And psychedelics, whatever they do, and I think they do something very useful, do not make people peaceful. Even if a person has many psychedelic experiences over a long period of time, they will most likely still be afflicted to some degree by greed, envy, anger, resentment, fear, etc. When we say we want peace in the world, we really mean we want peace in the human world. And the human world is made of humans. But each person wants peace to be achieved by all other humans making themselves peaceful -- very few people have any practice to make themselves more peaceful. If you want to make yourself more peaceful, this is the way I recommend: https://library.dhammasukha.org/uploads/1/2/8/6/12865490/the_path_to_nibbana__d_johnson_f18.pdf https://library.dhammasukha.org/uploads/1/2/8/6/12865490/the...
- programmarchy 5y ago
  I thought of this in a very similar way, but couldn't articulate it as well as you did. To add my two cents, peace is not simply lack of war, it's an active way of being. Psychedelics are a passive form of being, essentially a form of consumption. Historically, I believe the real peace movement which originated in the 60s was co-opted. Drugs and sexual liberation were inserted as substitutes for peace in order to divert the movement from achieving anything meaningful; the beliefs of the movement became dominated by desire, rather than the other way around. Being dominated by desires is ultimately a form of slavery, not liberation nor peace.
  - NateEag 5y ago
    > To add my two cents, peace is not simply lack of war, it's an active way of being. Reminds me of the Hebrew word "shalom": https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shalom https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shalom
  - WaxedChewbacca 5y ago
- joeberon 5y ago
  As a previously strongly practising Buddhist, I can say, Buddhism is a total scam. Some of the absolute worst and most deluded people I've known are devout Buddhists. I even had a formal teacher and even he could do nothing to help me develop compassion. Perhaps the Dharma is dead in this world or something, but it seems to not actually work anymore.
- programmarchy 5y ago
  You appear to be shadow-banned, FYI. Other than this comment, most of your other ones show up dead.
  - WaxedChewbacca 5y ago
geenew 5y ago
Jeremy Usborne: It's just, Big Suze and everyone, they're coming over. And you might want to make yourself scarce because we're going to be taking some magic mushrooms. Mark Corrigan: Magic mushrooms? Jeremy Usborne: Yes, and we're gonna smash down the doors of perception so we can see all the stuff that... Mark Corrigan: Isn't really there. Jeremy Usborne: That is really there but we don't normally see because we're so transfixed on... Mark Corrigan: The stuff that is really there. Jeremy Usborne: Oh, it's so simple for you, isn't it? But the truth that you're so scared of hearing is that in fact reality and fantasy are exactly the same thing.
- tux3 5y ago
  >you're so scared of hearing is that in fact reality and fantasy are exactly the same thing. Yes, that is scary. And it should be! When someone stops being able to tell the difference between fantasy and reality, they join people suffering from psychosis in being vulnerable to delusions and hallucinations. It's often said that psychedelics mimic schizophrenia. I think we should not overstretch that analogy, but the attitude of some that artificial 5-HT2A agonism somehow grants your brain access to some deeper fantastical truth is worrying. You're nudging a lever that your own body built and placed. If there was value in permanently pushing it all the way, would the body have evolved to leave it at baseline?
  - NateEag 5y ago
    > If there was value in permanently pushing it all the way, would the body have evolved to leave it at baseline? Sure. Evolution is not a designer. I'm no biologist, but I think it's pretty clear that evolution gets stuck in local optima all the time. See the common gripe about humans using the same pipe for breathing and eating. That said, I agree that messing with human biology is risky business for uncertain payoff. We simultaneously know mountains and nothing about ourselves and how we function.
  - mistermann 5y ago
    > When someone stops being able to tell the difference between fantasy and reality, they join people suffering from psychosis in being vulnerable to delusions and hallucinations. Sometimes, sure. But how do you explain differing opinions perceived as facts (ask some people, they'll tell you!), or the common scenario whereby people speak as if they can read minds or the future (pop into any culture war thread right here on HN)? If one has these symptoms while in (or after) a drug-altered state of consciousness is this psychosis, but if one has them under normal consciousness is it not? > It's often said that psychedelics mimic schizophrenia. I think we should not overstretch that analogy, but the attitude of some that artificial 5-HT2A agonism somehow grants your brain access to some deeper fantastical truth is worrying. Do you believe that it does not grant your brain access to some deeper fantastical truth, at all? Do you believe that this belief is true?
pmoriarty 5y ago
The possibility of positive, constructive psychedelic-inspired global consciousness change is one of the few things that gives me any hope towards humanity's future. Of course such an effect is not guaranteed (nothing in life is). Psychedelics need to be used constructively, not abused (as they were by MK-ULTRA and Manson, for instance)... but research has shown that psychedelic use is correlated with improved psychological health, increased empathy, openness, and appreciation for nature -- all things this world desperately needs.
- retrac 5y ago
  Well, since you mentioned it. I'm reminded of an old joke: If acid makes people more spiritual, peace-loving, and willing to question the system, what were the guys at the CIA like before they spiked the office water cooler?
  - FrenchDevRemote 5y ago
    they spiked unaware strangers drinks, not their own, sadly.
    - retrac 5y ago
      Aside from the torture and human experimentation on unwitting subjects, at some point in the practical field work of how to surreptitiously administer it, they started testing their techniques on each other. Nearly everyone involved in MKUltra acid research took a lot of acid early on. (I'm a little surprised how little this gets mentioned given the bizarre saga that followed.) Dosing each other became something of a game: > They approached the problem systematically, taking one step at a time, until they reached a point where outsiders were zapped with no explanation whatsoever. First everyone in Technical Services tried LSD. They tripped alone and in groups. A typical experiment involved two people pairing off in a closed room where they observed each other for hours at a time, took notes, and analyzed their experiences. As Gottlieb later explained, "There was an extensive amount of self-experimentation for the reason that we felt that a first hand knowledge of the subjective effects of these drugs (was] important to those of us who were involved in the program." > When they finally learned the hallucinogenic ropes, so to speak, they agreed among themselves to slip LSD into each other's drinks. The target never knew when his turn would come, but as soon as the drug was ingested a TSS colleague would tell him so he could make the necessary preparations—which usually meant taking the rest of the day off. Initially the leaders of MK-ULTRA restricted the surprise acid tests to TSS members, but when this phase had run its course they started dosing other Agency personnel who had never tripped before. Nearly everyone was fair game, and surprise acid trips became something of an occupational hazard among CIA operatives. -- Acid Dreams: The Complete Social History of LSD
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
deutschew 5y ago
YMMV but based on my personal experience, psilocybin mushroom has created a lasting positivity that I dare say has uplifted my depression. I am not a believer in micro-dosing, there is a tolerance that rapidly builds up (possibly due to evolutionary disadvantages of tripping balls). A few summers ago I ingested a few grams, and the awful texture and immediate urge to vomit was suppressed, so i rapidly chewed and just swallowed. This is what followed: the usual anxiety ridden come up and your ego being destroyed, followed by a cathartic positivity, that appears to last the next few days. Of course I'm hiding the bad parts: panic attacky omg what have i done followed by realization that the ego is not real (in very large doses I've experienced ego death and transcendental experience as if I could "see" for the first time, perceive reality as is without any bias, judgement or thought, VERY SCARY because it really feels like you are dead but actually your self separating from the ego, it is a mental creation and it's attachment that forms being the root of suffering. I make this one key observation about that trip: I sat on the toilet for an hour just pooping until only clear mucus started coming out. This is my theory but we know that the gut has its own "brain" or biome that is said to influence our minds, and its this cleansing (I feel like I was literally pooping out depression) that is ever lasting. It's the come up that makes it tough to enjoy psilocybin recreationally, in fact I've had scary trips that really make me put lot of thought into my surrounding (generally prefer being outdoors in the grass on a sunny day with meditation), and truth be told it's not like you do it once and your depression is cured, it took some experimenting. Having said that I do not recommend the Terrence Mckenna's "5 grams or nah" shotgun approach, especially if you've never even consumed anything but alcohol. DISCLAIMER: Please be careful and its best if you have someone nearby who is experienced but I did it alone. One realization that helped me with loneliness is that I realize I am never really alone because I felt closeness to earth. This is a path that the demographic on HN might not be ready to accept but damn it feels good to not be on anti-depressants or smoking marijuana to cope. On THC, I felt like whenever I started toking again, it would start bringing back the old energy, it felt like it was undoing the impact of 4-HO-DMT which is said to be encouraging neurgenesis (which explains the reduction in anxiety, ocd and depression). Can't have it all but one thing I feel like psilocybin isn't good at is helping with PTSD, I'm still awaiting trials for MDMA trials as I've heard good things about it (charite.de) it's tough for me to summarize the whole experience but if you have any questions I'd be happy to answer, my only concern is that in very very rare cases you have stuff like ppl jumping off buildings but it seems to be cohabited by other issues, I am not an expert or qualified to speak on this matter, so again please have a sitter and do it in a safe place where it is impossible to harm yourself. I am older now and I feel like I've experimented enough to call it quits but I am very thankful to the mushroom, earth, and other humans that have opened my other eye. It absolutely is beneficial to humanity to study this more and I am very excited to see more awareness in countries like Canada. Start very small but make sure you take long break in between, there is a dosage guideline out there. I feel like I'm "getting too old for this" and I find myself increasingly preferring sober and feel like exercise is truly king.
eggsmediumrare 5y ago
Didn't vikings do shrooms before they went and hacked at each other with iron weapons? I felt very peaceful and empathetic on shrooms, but it might be too much to hope that is a universal response...
- yesbabyyes 5y ago
  > Didn't vikings do shrooms before they went and hacked at each other with iron weapons? No. First, the theory is that they would use fly agaric to go berserk, a mushroom that, while a hallucinogen, gives a very different trip than psilocybin or typical magic mushrooms. Second, there is no evidence the Vikings used drugs prior to battle. That being said, they could have learned the use of fly agaric from the Sami, who, like other Uralic people, used it for shamanic practices. The practice of using henbane in beer brewing was common in Europe right up until the 16th century or so, so they were likely no strangers to tripping.
  - scns 5y ago
    Henbane is called Schwarzes Bilsenkraut in german. There might be a connection to the city Pilsen in the Czech Republic and the style of beer originatinig from there is called Pils or Pilsener.
andy_ppp 5y ago
Psychedelics can be anything you want almost, not every experience is positive and some people struggle. I think a bad trip can last a really long time with people. “Not exactly what you can call recreational” my friend said to me and I agree, that’s why nobody who has done them and is a good person will recommend them as they are undoubtedly one of the most extreme things you can do. The best advice I heard was if things are going really wrong you should change the lighting and/or move to a different location for a reset. In addition to that do it in nature with people you trust. Also probably don’t do an extremely strong microdot on your first go :-)
openfuture 5y ago
You could say the same about computers and world peace. Ultimately it is not about the tools but how we use them. The MK-ULTRA history lesson in the sibling comments is good evidence that this is the case. Sadly the only kind of persuasion that people are interested in is based in violence. I think we should all listen a bit more to Morcheeba.
Tangokat 5y ago
Research in using psychedelics for mental health (and recreation) is great and delayed by many years due to stupid and misguided regulations. In smaller doses I think most people will experience a positive trip if they have a good set and setting. In higher doses though, the trip is more unpredictable and harder to control. You can't overpower negative thoughts as well because your brain works differently than you're used to. I can't begin to explain how scary it is when time starts slowing to a crawl, looping and your mind and thoughts don't make sense anymore. Some people never really come back from that. Taking a "heroic" McKenna dose of 5+ grams of mushrooms is extremely stupid and dangerous. Don't do this. Likewise I think self-medicating with psychedelics to fix mental health is very risky but some risks may be worth it I suppose.
EL_Loco 5y ago
I've known a bunch of hippies/anarchists/free spirits or whatever who took acid. I've also know a lot of squares/lawyer types/bank tellers who never took any acid (most never even smoked pot). Thirty years later, there's a percentage of the hippies who seem to be happy, have a pretty good outlook on life, respect and care for other humans and the environment, are people who seem to have most of it figured out. There's also a pretty big percentage of them who now just guzzle beer at bars and watch football, and are assholes to their wives and kids. When I look at the other group of people I've known, the squares, the percentages are pretty much the same.
- mwattsun 5y ago
  Taking LSD or other hallucinogens is not a shortcut to enlightenment. In your paragraph above you could substitute "took acid" with "found Jesus" or "travelled to India to meditate at an Ashram" and it would still make sense. LSD showed me there was another path that had been hidden. Ram Dass called hallucinogens "training wheels." He said it was helpful for Westerners because we're very ego bound, trapped in the glory of our own reflection and individualistic that merging into "one" was difficult. Enlightenment as a mental state has been around a lot longer than LSD. It's the spiritual practice and study that counts.

82 points by pmoriarty 5y ago

I think it's easy to see that psychedelics, while valuable, aren't exactly a direct key to world peace. Why? Because we won't have peace in the world until we have peace in people. And psychedelics, whatever they do, and I think they do something very useful, do not make people peaceful. Even if a person has many psychedelic experiences over a long period of time, they will most likely still be afflicted to some degree by greed, envy, anger, resentment, fear, etc. When we say we want peace in the world, we really mean we want peace in the human world. And the human world is made of humans. But each person wants peace to be achieved by all other humans making themselves peaceful -- very few people have any practice to make themselves more peaceful. If you want to make yourself more peaceful, this is the way I recommend: https://library.dhammasukha.org/uploads/1/2/8/6/12865490/the_path_to_nibbana__d_johnson_f18.pdf https://library.dhammasukha.org/uploads/1/2/8/6/12865490/the...

programmarchy 5y ago
I thought of this in a very similar way, but couldn't articulate it as well as you did. To add my two cents, peace is not simply lack of war, it's an active way of being. Psychedelics are a passive form of being, essentially a form of consumption. Historically, I believe the real peace movement which originated in the 60s was co-opted. Drugs and sexual liberation were inserted as substitutes for peace in order to divert the movement from achieving anything meaningful; the beliefs of the movement became dominated by desire, rather than the other way around. Being dominated by desires is ultimately a form of slavery, not liberation nor peace.
- NateEag 5y ago
  > To add my two cents, peace is not simply lack of war, it's an active way of being. Reminds me of the Hebrew word "shalom": https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shalom https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shalom
- WaxedChewbacca 5y ago
joeberon 5y ago
As a previously strongly practising Buddhist, I can say, Buddhism is a total scam. Some of the absolute worst and most deluded people I've known are devout Buddhists. I even had a formal teacher and even he could do nothing to help me develop compassion. Perhaps the Dharma is dead in this world or something, but it seems to not actually work anymore.
programmarchy 5y ago
You appear to be shadow-banned, FYI. Other than this comment, most of your other ones show up dead.
- WaxedChewbacca 5y ago

geenew 5y ago

Jeremy Usborne: It's just, Big Suze and everyone, they're coming over. And you might want to make yourself scarce because we're going to be taking some magic mushrooms. Mark Corrigan: Magic mushrooms? Jeremy Usborne: Yes, and we're gonna smash down the doors of perception so we can see all the stuff that... Mark Corrigan: Isn't really there. Jeremy Usborne: That is really there but we don't normally see because we're so transfixed on... Mark Corrigan: The stuff that is really there. Jeremy Usborne: Oh, it's so simple for you, isn't it? But the truth that you're so scared of hearing is that in fact reality and fantasy are exactly the same thing.

tux3 5y ago
>you're so scared of hearing is that in fact reality and fantasy are exactly the same thing. Yes, that is scary. And it should be! When someone stops being able to tell the difference between fantasy and reality, they join people suffering from psychosis in being vulnerable to delusions and hallucinations. It's often said that psychedelics mimic schizophrenia. I think we should not overstretch that analogy, but the attitude of some that artificial 5-HT2A agonism somehow grants your brain access to some deeper fantastical truth is worrying. You're nudging a lever that your own body built and placed. If there was value in permanently pushing it all the way, would the body have evolved to leave it at baseline?
- NateEag 5y ago
  > If there was value in permanently pushing it all the way, would the body have evolved to leave it at baseline? Sure. Evolution is not a designer. I'm no biologist, but I think it's pretty clear that evolution gets stuck in local optima all the time. See the common gripe about humans using the same pipe for breathing and eating. That said, I agree that messing with human biology is risky business for uncertain payoff. We simultaneously know mountains and nothing about ourselves and how we function.
- mistermann 5y ago
  > When someone stops being able to tell the difference between fantasy and reality, they join people suffering from psychosis in being vulnerable to delusions and hallucinations. Sometimes, sure. But how do you explain differing opinions perceived as facts (ask some people, they'll tell you!), or the common scenario whereby people speak as if they can read minds or the future (pop into any culture war thread right here on HN)? If one has these symptoms while in (or after) a drug-altered state of consciousness is this psychosis, but if one has them under normal consciousness is it not? > It's often said that psychedelics mimic schizophrenia. I think we should not overstretch that analogy, but the attitude of some that artificial 5-HT2A agonism somehow grants your brain access to some deeper fantastical truth is worrying. Do you believe that it does not grant your brain access to some deeper fantastical truth, at all? Do you believe that this belief is true?

pmoriarty 5y ago

The possibility of positive, constructive psychedelic-inspired global consciousness change is one of the few things that gives me any hope towards humanity's future. Of course such an effect is not guaranteed (nothing in life is). Psychedelics need to be used constructively, not abused (as they were by MK-ULTRA and Manson, for instance)... but research has shown that psychedelic use is correlated with improved psychological health, increased empathy, openness, and appreciation for nature -- all things this world desperately needs.

retrac 5y ago
Well, since you mentioned it. I'm reminded of an old joke: If acid makes people more spiritual, peace-loving, and willing to question the system, what were the guys at the CIA like before they spiked the office water cooler?
- FrenchDevRemote 5y ago
  they spiked unaware strangers drinks, not their own, sadly.
  - retrac 5y ago
    Aside from the torture and human experimentation on unwitting subjects, at some point in the practical field work of how to surreptitiously administer it, they started testing their techniques on each other. Nearly everyone involved in MKUltra acid research took a lot of acid early on. (I'm a little surprised how little this gets mentioned given the bizarre saga that followed.) Dosing each other became something of a game: > They approached the problem systematically, taking one step at a time, until they reached a point where outsiders were zapped with no explanation whatsoever. First everyone in Technical Services tried LSD. They tripped alone and in groups. A typical experiment involved two people pairing off in a closed room where they observed each other for hours at a time, took notes, and analyzed their experiences. As Gottlieb later explained, "There was an extensive amount of self-experimentation for the reason that we felt that a first hand knowledge of the subjective effects of these drugs (was] important to those of us who were involved in the program." > When they finally learned the hallucinogenic ropes, so to speak, they agreed among themselves to slip LSD into each other's drinks. The target never knew when his turn would come, but as soon as the drug was ingested a TSS colleague would tell him so he could make the necessary preparations—which usually meant taking the rest of the day off. Initially the leaders of MK-ULTRA restricted the surprise acid tests to TSS members, but when this phase had run its course they started dosing other Agency personnel who had never tripped before. Nearly everyone was fair game, and surprise acid trips became something of an occupational hazard among CIA operatives. -- Acid Dreams: The Complete Social History of LSD

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

deutschew 5y ago

YMMV but based on my personal experience, psilocybin mushroom has created a lasting positivity that I dare say has uplifted my depression. I am not a believer in micro-dosing, there is a tolerance that rapidly builds up (possibly due to evolutionary disadvantages of tripping balls). A few summers ago I ingested a few grams, and the awful texture and immediate urge to vomit was suppressed, so i rapidly chewed and just swallowed. This is what followed: the usual anxiety ridden come up and your ego being destroyed, followed by a cathartic positivity, that appears to last the next few days. Of course I'm hiding the bad parts: panic attacky omg what have i done followed by realization that the ego is not real (in very large doses I've experienced ego death and transcendental experience as if I could "see" for the first time, perceive reality as is without any bias, judgement or thought, VERY SCARY because it really feels like you are dead but actually your self separating from the ego, it is a mental creation and it's attachment that forms being the root of suffering. I make this one key observation about that trip: I sat on the toilet for an hour just pooping until only clear mucus started coming out. This is my theory but we know that the gut has its own "brain" or biome that is said to influence our minds, and its this cleansing (I feel like I was literally pooping out depression) that is ever lasting. It's the come up that makes it tough to enjoy psilocybin recreationally, in fact I've had scary trips that really make me put lot of thought into my surrounding (generally prefer being outdoors in the grass on a sunny day with meditation), and truth be told it's not like you do it once and your depression is cured, it took some experimenting. Having said that I do not recommend the Terrence Mckenna's "5 grams or nah" shotgun approach, especially if you've never even consumed anything but alcohol. DISCLAIMER: Please be careful and its best if you have someone nearby who is experienced but I did it alone. One realization that helped me with loneliness is that I realize I am never really alone because I felt closeness to earth. This is a path that the demographic on HN might not be ready to accept but damn it feels good to not be on anti-depressants or smoking marijuana to cope. On THC, I felt like whenever I started toking again, it would start bringing back the old energy, it felt like it was undoing the impact of 4-HO-DMT which is said to be encouraging neurgenesis (which explains the reduction in anxiety, ocd and depression). Can't have it all but one thing I feel like psilocybin isn't good at is helping with PTSD, I'm still awaiting trials for MDMA trials as I've heard good things about it (charite.de) it's tough for me to summarize the whole experience but if you have any questions I'd be happy to answer, my only concern is that in very very rare cases you have stuff like ppl jumping off buildings but it seems to be cohabited by other issues, I am not an expert or qualified to speak on this matter, so again please have a sitter and do it in a safe place where it is impossible to harm yourself. I am older now and I feel like I've experimented enough to call it quits but I am very thankful to the mushroom, earth, and other humans that have opened my other eye. It absolutely is beneficial to humanity to study this more and I am very excited to see more awareness in countries like Canada. Start very small but make sure you take long break in between, there is a dosage guideline out there. I feel like I'm "getting too old for this" and I find myself increasingly preferring sober and feel like exercise is truly king.

eggsmediumrare 5y ago

Didn't vikings do shrooms before they went and hacked at each other with iron weapons? I felt very peaceful and empathetic on shrooms, but it might be too much to hope that is a universal response...

yesbabyyes 5y ago
> Didn't vikings do shrooms before they went and hacked at each other with iron weapons? No. First, the theory is that they would use fly agaric to go berserk, a mushroom that, while a hallucinogen, gives a very different trip than psilocybin or typical magic mushrooms. Second, there is no evidence the Vikings used drugs prior to battle. That being said, they could have learned the use of fly agaric from the Sami, who, like other Uralic people, used it for shamanic practices. The practice of using henbane in beer brewing was common in Europe right up until the 16th century or so, so they were likely no strangers to tripping.
- scns 5y ago
  Henbane is called Schwarzes Bilsenkraut in german. There might be a connection to the city Pilsen in the Czech Republic and the style of beer originatinig from there is called Pils or Pilsener.

andy_ppp 5y ago

Psychedelics can be anything you want almost, not every experience is positive and some people struggle. I think a bad trip can last a really long time with people. “Not exactly what you can call recreational” my friend said to me and I agree, that’s why nobody who has done them and is a good person will recommend them as they are undoubtedly one of the most extreme things you can do. The best advice I heard was if things are going really wrong you should change the lighting and/or move to a different location for a reset. In addition to that do it in nature with people you trust. Also probably don’t do an extremely strong microdot on your first go :-)

openfuture 5y ago

You could say the same about computers and world peace. Ultimately it is not about the tools but how we use them. The MK-ULTRA history lesson in the sibling comments is good evidence that this is the case. Sadly the only kind of persuasion that people are interested in is based in violence. I think we should all listen a bit more to Morcheeba.

Tangokat 5y ago

Research in using psychedelics for mental health (and recreation) is great and delayed by many years due to stupid and misguided regulations. In smaller doses I think most people will experience a positive trip if they have a good set and setting. In higher doses though, the trip is more unpredictable and harder to control. You can't overpower negative thoughts as well because your brain works differently than you're used to. I can't begin to explain how scary it is when time starts slowing to a crawl, looping and your mind and thoughts don't make sense anymore. Some people never really come back from that. Taking a "heroic" McKenna dose of 5+ grams of mushrooms is extremely stupid and dangerous. Don't do this. Likewise I think self-medicating with psychedelics to fix mental health is very risky but some risks may be worth it I suppose.

EL_Loco 5y ago

I've known a bunch of hippies/anarchists/free spirits or whatever who took acid. I've also know a lot of squares/lawyer types/bank tellers who never took any acid (most never even smoked pot). Thirty years later, there's a percentage of the hippies who seem to be happy, have a pretty good outlook on life, respect and care for other humans and the environment, are people who seem to have most of it figured out. There's also a pretty big percentage of them who now just guzzle beer at bars and watch football, and are assholes to their wives and kids. When I look at the other group of people I've known, the squares, the percentages are pretty much the same.

mwattsun 5y ago
Taking LSD or other hallucinogens is not a shortcut to enlightenment. In your paragraph above you could substitute "took acid" with "found Jesus" or "travelled to India to meditate at an Ashram" and it would still make sense. LSD showed me there was another path that had been hidden. Ram Dass called hallucinogens "training wheels." He said it was helpful for Westerners because we're very ego bound, trapped in the glory of our own reflection and individualistic that merging into "one" was difficult. Enlightenment as a mental state has been around a lot longer than LSD. It's the spiritual practice and study that counts.