3 ms·

Also a citizen of the mentioned country: while 'pride' might be a strong word for my feeling, I more importantly feel like it's our duty and responsibility to h

by sebow 5y ago

Also a citizen of the mentioned country: while 'pride' might be a strong word for my feeling, I more importantly feel like it's our duty and responsibility to help those in need.After all that is one of our cultural values we strive for as a country and as a continent.Personally I'll feel pride after the threat is gone. Where I differ is that I don't think countries like UK/other should be shamed for taking a different approach at all.It's never charity if it's forced.Yes, the first & second "waves" of people who flee during wartime are upper-middle class citizens, which we've seen here.They are financially secure most of the time, they are not as desperate.If they don't stay here they will go to Germany/other countries where they think it's best for them. The lower-middle & lower class can't do that,flee lastly and those are the people we need to support and help them unconditionally(and are the most grateful).At the same time some in WE & NA don't realize these are people legitimately fleeing conflict and are not migrating for,frankly, welfare benefits.They usually don't want to go in far distant lands because there's no economic motive.I don't want to sound like an ignorant but frankly UK is kind of a big stretch for fleeing as a wartime refugee person, though i'm not one to judge.Not to mention we've repeatedly seen refugee crises being abused for this reason, especially when getting a visa or being allowed through the border does not happen under normal conditions.(Here i would also like to say that Romania isn't in Schengen,still has border checks for both EU&non-EU, and there's nothing "discriminatory" if the border officer determines you're not fleeing conflict and rejects you, especially if there's no special case being stated by the gov. regarding certain criteria like nationality [exception which now exists for Ukrainians -- though more exceptionally this was decided at an EU level])

matthowe 5y ago
Yes, maybe "shame" on a national scale is overwrought. Those of us that did not vote for this Conservative government may feel shame (I certainly do) but the UK is a democracy and the government in power reflects, to a large degree, the sentiments of the general public when it comes to migration and charity to refugees. The latter of which is often in short supply. In terms of the practicality of fleeing Ukraine for the UK, I take your point about distance, and wouldn't imagine that we would be a more popular destination that countries in central Europe. At the same time, the fact that only 50 visas had been issued by Britain to refugees from Ukraine (at the last count I saw) is pretty embarrassing if you ask me. We should do more and better, but we get the government (and by extension, the policies and laws) that we deserve.
- sebow 5y ago
  Agreed.Though I'd say that UK has uniquely(amongst EU at least) been proven as a good supporter and ally with EE through NATO for military purposes.Indeed, if only 50 visas have been given that's a pretty low number, but I'd be curious to know if rejections for visas are because of immigration policies[which I respect,from both a democratic prism and from my personal ideology] or security concerns.
KolenCh 5y ago
Please, space after full stop.

by sebow 5y ago

matthowe 5y ago

Yes, maybe "shame" on a national scale is overwrought. Those of us that did not vote for this Conservative government may feel shame (I certainly do) but the UK is a democracy and the government in power reflects, to a large degree, the sentiments of the general public when it comes to migration and charity to refugees. The latter of which is often in short supply. In terms of the practicality of fleeing Ukraine for the UK, I take your point about distance, and wouldn't imagine that we would be a more popular destination that countries in central Europe. At the same time, the fact that only 50 visas had been issued by Britain to refugees from Ukraine (at the last count I saw) is pretty embarrassing if you ask me. We should do more and better, but we get the government (and by extension, the policies and laws) that we deserve.

sebow 5y ago
Agreed.Though I'd say that UK has uniquely(amongst EU at least) been proven as a good supporter and ally with EE through NATO for military purposes.Indeed, if only 50 visas have been given that's a pretty low number, but I'd be curious to know if rejections for visas are because of immigration policies[which I respect,from both a democratic prism and from my personal ideology] or security concerns.

KolenCh 5y ago

Please, space after full stop.