6 ms·
YouTube Kids cleaned up its act
- moltar 5y agoHuman curation, eh? Will I be able to choose the ideology setting?
- axiomsEnd 5y agoNot sure where Peppa Pig and Baby Shark land on the politics compas.
- moltke 5y ago
- gambiting 5y ago>>homosexuality and transgender propaganda Like, I'm honestly curious what people have in mind when they say that. Like honestly, what kind of "propaganda" can you have towards a sexual orientation or identity? Please explain if you can.
- hellomyguys 5y agoWhat is homosexuality and transgender propaganda?
- Cthulhu_ 5y agoWasn't Paw Patrol like US pro-police propaganda? (try saying that five times in a row)
- fnord123 5y agoPaw Patrol is Canadian, so it's unlikely to be US pro-police propaganda. You might be mixing in details from this Onion article: https://www.theonion.com/paw-patrol-writers-defend-episode-where-german-shephe-1828419524 https://www.theonion.com/paw-patrol-writers-defend-episode-w...
- stuaxo 5y agoIt sure watches like it.
- gambiting 5y agoThere are some amusing explanations as to how it's a fascist society: https://thecritic.co.uk/the-fascist-state-of-paw-patrol/ https://thecritic.co.uk/the-fascist-state-of-paw-patrol/ "Paw Patrol is Giorgio Agamben’s nightmare, a country in which a permanent state of emergency exists, under which governments have limitless power to rule unilaterally. There is no society or even commerce in Paw Patrol, only the relentless unthinking force of the police state, ostensibly responding to a never-ending crisis. It is the most influential work of fascist art since Ezra Pound."
- DocTomoe 5y agoAlso, Thomas the Tank engine apparently paints capitalism (as symbolized by the fat controller) in a too rosy light (once you see that pattern, being praised for being a 'really useful little engine" sounds positively evil). Everything is political ... if you want it to be. [1] https://slate.com/culture/2011/07/thomas-the-tank-engine-the-popular-children-s-show-is-sadly-nostalgic-for-british-imperialism.html https://slate.com/culture/2011/07/thomas-the-tank-engine-the...
- wizzwizz4 5y agoI've seen the same argument used to paint it as Stalinist. I prefer this explanation, because it means Thomas is a Tankie Engine.
- lxm 5y agoTTTE's record on electrification and addressing pollution is also iffy https://ttte.fandom.com/wiki/Welcome_Stafford https://ttte.fandom.com/wiki/Welcome_Stafford!
- fnord123 5y agoIs this like Peppa Pig teaching racist because animals may be inter-species friends but never intermarry. Or the Good Dinosaur where each group can enjoy each others company, but they must go back to their kind.
- lotsofpulp 5y agoI am curious why Daniel Tiger’s creators decided to incorporate a monarchy in that society.
- stusmall 5y agoIt was briefly a touch point for the insane edges on either side of the spectrum that need to log off twitter a bit more often. The ultra-right was convinced liberal cancel culture was going to take it away from our kids. The ultra left saw it as a symbol of the police state. Meanwhile, most people don't give the show a second thought unless they have an 8 year old. It's wild to see horse shoe theory play out over something so silly.
- afavour 5y agoThat was essentially a fictitious talking point used to demonstrate how out of touch defund police protesters were. No one was actually saying it.
- gwbas1c 5y agoI thought Mayor Humdinger, in the feature-length movie, was a swipe at Trump. The whole point of Paw Patrol is to make an amusing show for kids, and to make money selling merchandise. The whole reason why they keep making more of it is because it sells. The only agenda is to make money. (Which I happily spend.)
- lobstrosity420 5y agoEverything is political. It's just that some things are so comfortably deep inside the overton window you don't even see it that way.
- beaconstudios 5y ago/s? Baby shark isn't exactly a commentary on neoliberalism.
- cool_dude85 5y agoSure, but the decision to allow e.g. baby shark, and not dubbed Soviet children's cartoons about how good of a leader Stalin is, is certainly a political decision.
- tehjoker 5y agoIf you go deep enough, there are criticisms of the nuclear family structure which Baby Shark assumes lol
- beaconstudios 5y agoI'm familiar with some of them (primarily criticisms that the nuclear family is the /only/ acceptable family structure where other forms exist and are healthy) but simply presenting a nuclear family is fairly innocuous.
- tehjoker 5y agoWell yea, but it does implicitly encode a definition of normality and that's a political statement. It's just so deeply ingrained it is not perceptible as nearly everyone involved in creation and consumption has that assumption. EDIT: As I pondered this there are two more angles to consider. (a) Baby Shark is a product of South Korea is at war with North Korea and arguments against nuclear family structure are laid out in the Communist Manifesto (b) some people consider that nuclear family structures are not merely co-existing with other healthy structures, but that the nuclear structure is harmful and other models are superior. I'm not trying to debate these points (not totally sure where I stand myself), but it's helpful to break through the bubble and see what assumptions cultural forces are embedding in media. You can imagine a Baby Shark that talks about the network of relations that care for baby instead of a hierarchical biological lineage.
- wizzwizz4 5y agoPeppa Pig is clearly somewhat authoritarian. Peppa has to do what Doctor Brown says, or else; likewise, Peppa needs to do what her parents say, and what her teacher says… What have they done to earn that authority? They've had it as long as Peppa has been alive, and will likely continue to do so forever. Baby Shark is anarchist: “Baby Shark do do do do do” has no unjust hierarchies. It's not libertarian, though, because “sharks eat all the other fish” seems like a violation of the Non-Aggression Principle. (Then again, the sharks don't eat other sharks, so maybe there's a libertarian shark society that just doesn't consider the other fish to be people.) It's also anti-capitalist: “Baby Shark do do do do do” has no money, and no corporations. This places it in the lower left corner of the political compass.
- gus_massa 5y agoWhat about Ben & Holly's Little Kingdom? The royal family are fairies that use magic and are somewhat stupid but have a noble heart. They rule over elves that use technology instead of magic and are usually wise and fixes the problems. It looks like antimonarchy propaganda for me :) . (My 5 years old daughter likes the show.)
- pavel_lishin 5y agoWere you able to with an algorithmic approach?
- moltar 5y agoI don’t think the algo had an ideology lean though. It just showed you more of what you’ve already watched. Also not great.
- pavel_lishin 5y agoI think it's a mistake to assume that algorithms don't have an ideology lean. Even if one wasn't (accidentally or intentionally) programmed in, it can certainly develop one.
- dragonwriter 5y agoAll algorithms are designed with a purpose, and the purpose (when talking about the kind of product-defining content-prioritization algorithms being discussed) usually is grounded in value judgements. In a for-profit firm, especially, it may just be capitalist profit-maximization, but that is also an ideology.
- makoto12 5y agobetween the two known options, algorithm vs human curated, I would definitely be choosing human curated for my kids, despite knowing there will be a idealogical biases. What are you actually proposing?
- moltar 5y agoHow about neither? Let kids or parents curate themselves.
- hellomyguys 5y agoThey can do that already.
- YesThatTom2 5y agoEvery minute more than 24 hours are uploaded to YouTube. What child has >2000 parents willing to watch it all? Oh, you mean children shouldn’t use a computer unsupervised? That ship sailed a long time ago.
- Shared404 5y ago> Oh, you mean children shouldn’t use a computer unsupervised? That ship sailed a long time ago. Depends on the definition of 'children' I think. The 5 year old probably shouldn't be turned loose on an ipad, and probably neither should a 10 or 11 year old imho. I could see an argument for 12 and up though. Now, will people be careful about that? Absolutely not, but probably should.
- MisterTea 5y ago> Oh, you mean children shouldn’t use a computer unsupervised? That ship sailed a long time ago. Sailed? You are the parent. You have control over what your child does.
- criddell 5y agoYou are ultimately in control of what your 5 year old watches.
- furyofantares 5y ago> younger consumers what a phrase. we're talking about 5 year olds maybe they should be forced to rebrand, YouTube Younger Consumers
- umvi 5y agoAs if 30 years ago kids weren't massive consumers of television and advertising content?
- hn_throwaway_99 5y agoThis sentiment often comes up on this topic, and it's a false equivalence. Television and advertising execs from 30 years ago didn't have the sheer massive volume of interactive data that the internet provides - TV from 30 years ago didn't know you were watching, and more importantly didn't change the program schedule based on what you, individually, watched. TV from 30 years ago also didn't have legions of extremely highly paid PhDs scouring data whose sole job it is is to get 9 year olds hooked into watching more content.
- DonHopkins 5y ago57 years ago back in 1965 there was Soupy Sales and those "funny green pieces of paper with pictures of U.S. Presidents". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-OGy3Kh7yM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-OGy3Kh7yM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soupy_Sales#New_Year's_Day_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soupy_Sales#New_Year's_Day_inc...
- thanatos519 5y agoThere are no citizens, only consumers.
- antattack 5y agoThis is as good time as any to introduce parents to [0]Blippi whom, apparently, kids adore. He is also known as Steezy Grossman, who among other accomplishments, pooped on his friend when [1]harlem shake was the rage. [0]https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/katienotopoulos/blippi-youtube-kids-star-harlem-shake-poop https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/katienotopoulos/blippi-... [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8f7wj_RcqYk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8f7wj_RcqYk EDIT: it's interesting that majority assume that my post was negative of Blippi. Personally I would not want my children to watch any adult pretending to be a child as a main source of entertainment (or education?). I thought his history, which he himself appears to be ashamed of, was interesting and an example of how you never know who really is behind the tube.
- afavour 5y agoI personally don’t get the fuss about that video. It’s not reflective of the videos he makes today. The videos he makes today irritate me deeply and I try to have my kids watch them as little as possible, but I still don’t care about the poop video.
- mchusma 5y agoMy boys love Blippi, and I think his content is really good as far as these things go, for preschool educational-entertainment content. He basically goes different places and shows kids things.
- leokennis 5y agoOoof. That guy acts so infantile it's scary. Like a creepy grown man cosplaying as a toddler.
- hn_throwaway_99 5y agoHe was known as Steezy Grossman, and I don't see your point, besides trying to argue for some lame version of Victorian morality that because you did one thing a long time ago that you must be shamed into never doing anything else.
- sp332 5y agoI submit that most biological parents are unfit to raise children, because they committed an indecent act at least once!
- patorjk 5y ago> The feeling among many product managers and engineers was that if a platform was 99% safe, that was enough, according to one former executive. The point was to find a way to avoid human curation, the person said. I wonder if the initial batch of engineers working on the product had kids. I remember being horrified when I read about some of the stuff people were finding on the app. It seemed unconscionable that a company would be make a product for kids and have that kind of content (ex: cartoon characters committing suicide).
- hn_throwaway_99 5y ago> The 9 -to-12-year-olds, the group of kids advertisers most want to reach as they start to acquire more pocket money That is just so disgusting on so many levels. It's also the group advertisers want to target because they know their brains aren't fully formed yet and they're more susceptible to advertising BS than the rest of us.
- davesmylie 5y agohttps://archive.ph/bJxj8 https://archive.ph/bJxj8