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I wish someone could tell me why Russia and the U.S. are not allies. Like, don't they largely share a similar cultural and religious heritage? Seems like Russi

I wish someone could tell me why Russia and the U.S. are not allies. Like, don't they largely share a similar cultural and religious heritage? Seems like Russia and all countries that share similar cultures would be allies against China, with her 1.5 billion people . . . ???

zht 5y ago
in what way is Russian culture similar to the US? from a religious point of view, are you suggesting that Eastern Orthodox Christianity is similar to the hodgepodge of various Christian sects in the States?
- ModernMech 5y ago
  There has been a concerted campaign by the American right over the past number of years to portray Russia as a conservative utopia Christian ethnostate, where they worship God, guns, and country, and being gay is illegal. This view has lead some in my family to proclaim they'd rather be Russian than a Democrat, because they feel they have more in common with foreigners living across the world under a dictatorship in another country than their own family in a different political party.
- devoutsalsa 5y ago
  The most obvious similarity I can think of would be a mutual loathing of Nickelback.
- Starlevel001 5y ago
  > in what way is Russian culture similar to the US? Overtly fascist
- alkaloid 5y ago
  Doesn't the US have a large population of Roman and Eastern Catholics? Catholic and Orthodox are two sides of the same coin, this is why I bring it up. I'm also aware that the US has a lot of various Orthodox sects as well, including Russian.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > Doesn't the US have a large population of Roman and Eastern Catholics? Eastern Catholics are Roman (but not Latin-Rite) Catholics. And, yes, the US has a lot of Catholics. > Catholic and Orthodox are two sides of the same coin From the perspective of some Protestants, maybe, though from the Orthodox perspective one might see the two sides of the Catholic/Protestant schism as much closer than the Catholic side of that schism is to the Orthodox side of the East/West schism.
dotancohen 5y ago
Russia and the US are allies. Neither could justify their military budgets without the other.
jackdh 5y ago
I think having fundamentally different ideologies for quite a long time likely doesn't help them be BFF's.
eezurr 5y ago
This is a great question that id like to discover the truth of. My guess is because Russia is not, and never has been a democratic country, and perhaps there are many nuanced conflicts regarding that difference that im not educated enough to understand or find.
- parthdesai 5y ago
  There are differences, but honestly it's laughable to think that USA considers democracy as one of the major values for an alliance.
  - viro 5y ago
    what was the last democracy that the US invaded?
    - parthdesai 5y ago
      First of all, this isn't a question about invasion. OP asked why Russia and US can't be allies, and the GP said one of the reasons is because Russia is not a democracy. US has shown time and time again that democracy only matters when it suits them. US is an ally of Saudi and a lot of monarchies in Middle East; Saudi, Qatar, UAE and Kuwait. US also overthrew a democratically elected govt. in Iran for a "friendlier" Shah. You also have Operation Candor. So to sum it up, my point is, when it comes forming alliances, US is willing to overlook democracy. I don't know why you're bringing up invasion. Also, as an aside, if a country is not democratic, that doesn't give US right to invade it and you don't get to justify it.
      - lostmsu 5y ago
        Your point is unclear. You named just a few non-democratic US allies. There are hundreds of countries on the planet and pretty much all democratic ones are US allies. So it is clear that being democratic is a strong major factor. And exceptions just show that there are other factors though seemingly less important, and that the democracy is not a 100% requirement. > if a country is not democratic, that doesn't give US right to invade it and you don't get to justify it You made up something here, that nobody disputes, attributed to an unnamed set of opponents, and denied it. This is messed up. You should not be doing that in a reasonable discussion.
dmead 5y ago
It's been part of american culture since the 50s to accuse people of being in league with the russians. so no, they aren't friends.
- xdennis 5y ago
  Russia has seen itself as being distinct from the west since before the US existed. Don't scapegoat Americans.
eej71 5y ago
Not even close. For me, America is a child of the enlightenment. Russia... is not. For a throrough review of the intellectual influence that enlightenment thinkers had on America, check out C. Bradley Thompson's America's Revolutionary Mind. https://www.cato.org/cato-journal/fall-2020/americas-revolutionary-mind-moral-history-american-revolution-declaration https://www.cato.org/cato-journal/fall-2020/americas-revolut...
ashtonkem 5y ago
> I wish someone could tell me why Russia and the U.S. are not allies. Like, don't they largely share a similar cultural and religious heritage? No, they do not. Culturally Russia has always ping ponged back and forth between seeing itself as European and not European. Currently Russia is on the "we're distinct from Europe and have our own unique and proud history" side of that equation. If you want more on this (extremely complicated) subject, read into the various Tsars that attempted to "modernize" and Europeanize Russia, such as Peter the Great. The backlash after his death towards his European preferences says a lot. Religiously Russia is an Orthodox country, and it split off from Europe's Catholicism nearly a 1000 years ago. This split was both religious and political, aligning roughly (very roughly) with the divisions of the Roman empire into East and West. The Eastern (Orthodox) branch was originally centered in Constantinople (modern Istanbul), which even today we'd identify as a distinctly Eastern city. That alone should tell you why Russia sees itself as distinct from the rest of Europe. Meanwhile the rest of Europe is either Catholic or Protestant, which itself split off from Catholicism half a millennium after Orthodoxy did. They're just not that close religiously. > Seems like Russia and all countries that share similar cultures would be allies against China, with her 1.5 billion people . . . ??? Because international diplomacy and conflict isn't really as simple as pointing at borders and population counts. Yes, there has been some conflict between Russia and China, but by and large their population centers are a long, long way away from each other. There's a reason why Russia has fought basically three wars with China and dozens with Sweden alone; geography. Meanwhile there are historical and personal reasons for Russia to turn West and specifically to Ukraine. Russia has a very, very long history in attempting to seize and hold Ukraine, as it's alternated back and forth between being a Russian owned territory and not. Take a look at the Kievan Rus, the ancestor state to both Russia and Ukraine, and coincidentally where Russia converted to Orthodox Christianity.
- alkaloid 5y ago
  Thanks for a thorough and thoughtful response!
Zigurd 5y ago
We unelected the guy with that theory. Good thing we did.
stjohnswarts 5y ago
Russians, I have gotten along well with. However, the Russian elites see themselves as different and above their European cohorts (and Americans by extension). They have a long history of subjugating their people whether it was oligarchs, communists, or aristocrats. I don't think liberal democratic ideas spread there like they did in the rest of the West and never became sewn in with the national identity. It seems like the Russians have a sort of nihilism about all of it, at least the ones I've spoken with on such things over a beer or 6. I mean look at the USA, a country founded on democratic principals and there was still a strong minority (30%?) rooting for Trump to steal the election and possibly set up a one party system for republicans and white supremacists.

zht 5y ago

in what way is Russian culture similar to the US? from a religious point of view, are you suggesting that Eastern Orthodox Christianity is similar to the hodgepodge of various Christian sects in the States?

ModernMech 5y ago
There has been a concerted campaign by the American right over the past number of years to portray Russia as a conservative utopia Christian ethnostate, where they worship God, guns, and country, and being gay is illegal. This view has lead some in my family to proclaim they'd rather be Russian than a Democrat, because they feel they have more in common with foreigners living across the world under a dictatorship in another country than their own family in a different political party.
devoutsalsa 5y ago
The most obvious similarity I can think of would be a mutual loathing of Nickelback.
Starlevel001 5y ago
> in what way is Russian culture similar to the US? Overtly fascist
alkaloid 5y ago
Doesn't the US have a large population of Roman and Eastern Catholics? Catholic and Orthodox are two sides of the same coin, this is why I bring it up. I'm also aware that the US has a lot of various Orthodox sects as well, including Russian.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > Doesn't the US have a large population of Roman and Eastern Catholics? Eastern Catholics are Roman (but not Latin-Rite) Catholics. And, yes, the US has a lot of Catholics. > Catholic and Orthodox are two sides of the same coin From the perspective of some Protestants, maybe, though from the Orthodox perspective one might see the two sides of the Catholic/Protestant schism as much closer than the Catholic side of that schism is to the Orthodox side of the East/West schism.

dotancohen 5y ago

Russia and the US are allies. Neither could justify their military budgets without the other.

jackdh 5y ago

I think having fundamentally different ideologies for quite a long time likely doesn't help them be BFF's.

eezurr 5y ago

This is a great question that id like to discover the truth of. My guess is because Russia is not, and never has been a democratic country, and perhaps there are many nuanced conflicts regarding that difference that im not educated enough to understand or find.

parthdesai 5y ago
There are differences, but honestly it's laughable to think that USA considers democracy as one of the major values for an alliance.
- viro 5y ago
  what was the last democracy that the US invaded?
  - parthdesai 5y ago
    First of all, this isn't a question about invasion. OP asked why Russia and US can't be allies, and the GP said one of the reasons is because Russia is not a democracy. US has shown time and time again that democracy only matters when it suits them. US is an ally of Saudi and a lot of monarchies in Middle East; Saudi, Qatar, UAE and Kuwait. US also overthrew a democratically elected govt. in Iran for a "friendlier" Shah. You also have Operation Candor. So to sum it up, my point is, when it comes forming alliances, US is willing to overlook democracy. I don't know why you're bringing up invasion. Also, as an aside, if a country is not democratic, that doesn't give US right to invade it and you don't get to justify it.
    - lostmsu 5y ago
      Your point is unclear. You named just a few non-democratic US allies. There are hundreds of countries on the planet and pretty much all democratic ones are US allies. So it is clear that being democratic is a strong major factor. And exceptions just show that there are other factors though seemingly less important, and that the democracy is not a 100% requirement. > if a country is not democratic, that doesn't give US right to invade it and you don't get to justify it You made up something here, that nobody disputes, attributed to an unnamed set of opponents, and denied it. This is messed up. You should not be doing that in a reasonable discussion.

dmead 5y ago

It's been part of american culture since the 50s to accuse people of being in league with the russians. so no, they aren't friends.

xdennis 5y ago
Russia has seen itself as being distinct from the west since before the US existed. Don't scapegoat Americans.

eej71 5y ago

Not even close. For me, America is a child of the enlightenment. Russia... is not. For a throrough review of the intellectual influence that enlightenment thinkers had on America, check out C. Bradley Thompson's America's Revolutionary Mind. https://www.cato.org/cato-journal/fall-2020/americas-revolutionary-mind-moral-history-american-revolution-declaration https://www.cato.org/cato-journal/fall-2020/americas-revolut...

ashtonkem 5y ago

> I wish someone could tell me why Russia and the U.S. are not allies. Like, don't they largely share a similar cultural and religious heritage? No, they do not. Culturally Russia has always ping ponged back and forth between seeing itself as European and not European. Currently Russia is on the "we're distinct from Europe and have our own unique and proud history" side of that equation. If you want more on this (extremely complicated) subject, read into the various Tsars that attempted to "modernize" and Europeanize Russia, such as Peter the Great. The backlash after his death towards his European preferences says a lot. Religiously Russia is an Orthodox country, and it split off from Europe's Catholicism nearly a 1000 years ago. This split was both religious and political, aligning roughly (very roughly) with the divisions of the Roman empire into East and West. The Eastern (Orthodox) branch was originally centered in Constantinople (modern Istanbul), which even today we'd identify as a distinctly Eastern city. That alone should tell you why Russia sees itself as distinct from the rest of Europe. Meanwhile the rest of Europe is either Catholic or Protestant, which itself split off from Catholicism half a millennium after Orthodoxy did. They're just not that close religiously. > Seems like Russia and all countries that share similar cultures would be allies against China, with her 1.5 billion people . . . ??? Because international diplomacy and conflict isn't really as simple as pointing at borders and population counts. Yes, there has been some conflict between Russia and China, but by and large their population centers are a long, long way away from each other. There's a reason why Russia has fought basically three wars with China and dozens with Sweden alone; geography. Meanwhile there are historical and personal reasons for Russia to turn West and specifically to Ukraine. Russia has a very, very long history in attempting to seize and hold Ukraine, as it's alternated back and forth between being a Russian owned territory and not. Take a look at the Kievan Rus, the ancestor state to both Russia and Ukraine, and coincidentally where Russia converted to Orthodox Christianity.

alkaloid 5y ago
Thanks for a thorough and thoughtful response!

Zigurd 5y ago

We unelected the guy with that theory. Good thing we did.

stjohnswarts 5y ago

Russians, I have gotten along well with. However, the Russian elites see themselves as different and above their European cohorts (and Americans by extension). They have a long history of subjugating their people whether it was oligarchs, communists, or aristocrats. I don't think liberal democratic ideas spread there like they did in the rest of the West and never became sewn in with the national identity. It seems like the Russians have a sort of nihilism about all of it, at least the ones I've spoken with on such things over a beer or 6. I mean look at the USA, a country founded on democratic principals and there was still a strong minority (30%?) rooting for Trump to steal the election and possibly set up a one party system for republicans and white supremacists.