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Hardly anyone with some nuance thinks of religions and related beliefs as exclusively bad, I think. That doesn't mean that there is not plenty of surface area f

Hardly anyone with some nuance thinks of religions and related beliefs as exclusively bad, I think. That doesn't mean that there is not plenty of surface area for people to be overexposed to the negative aspects of these beliefs, leading to cynical takes and the perceived need to shoot down any semblance of it. Regardless of the side one is on, those comments rarely add something of substance to a given conversation, though.

packetlost 5y ago
I think there are some religions that are a net-negative on society, their members, etc. Most religions are probably not in that category though. I only say this because I grew up in a cult that has had lasting impacts on my social and mental health despite leaving almost a decade ago and I have nothing good to say about that particular organization.
- stjohnswarts 5y ago
  They absolutely are. They have been used for thousands of years to hold back the populous and abused by leaders who manipulate it to get what they want. I'm not saying atheists don't do bad things either, it's just they don't justify it as "the will of God(s)”. I think by and large religion has an awful track record down through history and has actively attempted to retard human progress and learning, they want to be the only source of “truth”
  - sacrosancty 5y ago
    For most of history, there was no progress to make and nothing to learn. Religion provided stability. That's pretty good if you're going nowhere. Who, 1000 years ago, could have predicted the industrial revolution or anything remotely like it? Science had almost no relevance to real life until maybe 100-200 years ago. Before that it was pretty much just imagining stuff for fun. Who could have expected that to lead anywhere useful?
drewcoo 5y ago
And nuanced does not mean more correct.
- cgriswald 5y ago
  Whether the nuanced view is more or less correct depends entirely on whether your view of correctness is black-and-white or more nuanced. Suppose I spill a bunch of puzzle pieces on a table and ask two friends to tell me what picture is on the puzzle. My friend Alice blurts out "Elephant" because she has seen a lot of grey pieces. My friend Bob spends more time and looks beyond just the color, at the shapes and the other colors present and determines the image is Fort Knox. In this case does it matter what is actually on the puzzle? Even if Alice gets it right, she's basically just guessing in the dark. She's ignoring all kinds of other evidence and reaching a conclusion. Does she deserve a reward if she happens to have guessed correctly despite not developing an understanding of what she's actually seeing? (Put another way, is real life like a gameshow?) Conversely, is Bob 'less correct' for having taken the time to understand other details of the image? I say, no. I don't think Alice can be correct here. Her view can only align with truth coincidentally. That she got lucky this time has no meaning.
olivejun 5y ago
Honestly I thought the same thing about your comment tbh lol I don’t understand what’s negative about the folklore. I feel as if you’re conflating this folk tale to an organized religion or something.
- MildlySerious 5y ago
  > I feel as if you’re conflating this folk tale to an organized religion or something. The comment I replied to reads "religion, mythology and beliefs such as this one".
stjohnswarts 5y ago
Sorry man I've lived long enough to see very bad people use religion to explain what they do or to forgive themselves for awful things that they do. I have met very few "saintly" people over the course of things. Luckily most people (at least in the west) don't give religion that much time in their thoughts and general don't shape their lives around it.
- hunterb123 5y ago
  The nicest people I've met and the strangers who helped me when I needed it were religious. I don't think anecdotes can be used to accuse a massive group of people of wrongdoing. Religious people are people, judge the individual. And I don't think forgiving yourself is a bad thing. The only other options are kill yourself or wallow in guilt for the rest of your life. Just because you forgave yourself doesn't mean there wasn't consequences or guilt felt.

packetlost 5y ago

I think there are some religions that are a net-negative on society, their members, etc. Most religions are probably not in that category though. I only say this because I grew up in a cult that has had lasting impacts on my social and mental health despite leaving almost a decade ago and I have nothing good to say about that particular organization.

stjohnswarts 5y ago
They absolutely are. They have been used for thousands of years to hold back the populous and abused by leaders who manipulate it to get what they want. I'm not saying atheists don't do bad things either, it's just they don't justify it as "the will of God(s)”. I think by and large religion has an awful track record down through history and has actively attempted to retard human progress and learning, they want to be the only source of “truth”
- sacrosancty 5y ago
  For most of history, there was no progress to make and nothing to learn. Religion provided stability. That's pretty good if you're going nowhere. Who, 1000 years ago, could have predicted the industrial revolution or anything remotely like it? Science had almost no relevance to real life until maybe 100-200 years ago. Before that it was pretty much just imagining stuff for fun. Who could have expected that to lead anywhere useful?

drewcoo 5y ago

And nuanced does not mean more correct.

cgriswald 5y ago
Whether the nuanced view is more or less correct depends entirely on whether your view of correctness is black-and-white or more nuanced. Suppose I spill a bunch of puzzle pieces on a table and ask two friends to tell me what picture is on the puzzle. My friend Alice blurts out "Elephant" because she has seen a lot of grey pieces. My friend Bob spends more time and looks beyond just the color, at the shapes and the other colors present and determines the image is Fort Knox. In this case does it matter what is actually on the puzzle? Even if Alice gets it right, she's basically just guessing in the dark. She's ignoring all kinds of other evidence and reaching a conclusion. Does she deserve a reward if she happens to have guessed correctly despite not developing an understanding of what she's actually seeing? (Put another way, is real life like a gameshow?) Conversely, is Bob 'less correct' for having taken the time to understand other details of the image? I say, no. I don't think Alice can be correct here. Her view can only align with truth coincidentally. That she got lucky this time has no meaning.

olivejun 5y ago

Honestly I thought the same thing about your comment tbh lol I don’t understand what’s negative about the folklore. I feel as if you’re conflating this folk tale to an organized religion or something.

MildlySerious 5y ago
> I feel as if you’re conflating this folk tale to an organized religion or something. The comment I replied to reads "religion, mythology and beliefs such as this one".

stjohnswarts 5y ago

Sorry man I've lived long enough to see very bad people use religion to explain what they do or to forgive themselves for awful things that they do. I have met very few "saintly" people over the course of things. Luckily most people (at least in the west) don't give religion that much time in their thoughts and general don't shape their lives around it.

hunterb123 5y ago
The nicest people I've met and the strangers who helped me when I needed it were religious. I don't think anecdotes can be used to accuse a massive group of people of wrongdoing. Religious people are people, judge the individual. And I don't think forgiving yourself is a bad thing. The only other options are kill yourself or wallow in guilt for the rest of your life. Just because you forgave yourself doesn't mean there wasn't consequences or guilt felt.