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Moscow says it will let Ukrainian civilians flee – to Russia
- duxup 5y agoHopefully it happens this time.
- fractallyte 5y agoNo, hopefully not! This is Russia's way of depopulating a nation it's attacking, with the aim of replacing those displaced people with its own. In the past, those populations would be deported, typically to Siberian gulags (Baltic peoples, Crimean Tatars, etc.) or just massacred (Circassian genocide). It's a tactic repeated over decades and centuries. That's why there's usually a Russian-speaking population in all their conquered territories. Don't fall for it!
- duxup 5y agoIf civilians don’t want to die I think we should let them chose that.
- toomuchtodo 5y agoA choice under duress is not a choice.
- duxup 5y agoSo who makes that choice?
- thfuran 5y agoRussia
- toomuchtodo 5y agoUnfortunately or fortunately, depending on who you are and what you see as success, the one with the most force potential. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Might_makes_right https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Might_makes_right
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- s1artibartfast 5y agoA choice under duress is still a choice, just one with shitty options that you might not select if you had more control of the situation.
- mint2 5y agoWhat could go wrong with the civilian families of Ukrainian soldiers “choosing” to go to put themselves at the mercy of the enemy attacking Ukrainian soldiers, an enemy that has been specifically targeting civilians with bombing and death. Russia: “hey civilians that we keep bombing and killing, we are generously offering you a stay in our re-education camps. Our words and promises are meaningless so we won’t bother saying whether we’ll use you to extort your soldier relatives”
- s1artibartfast 5y agoWhat Is you alternative to stop Ukrainian civilians from fleeing into Russia? I guess NATO could bomb them so Russia doesn't get the leverage, but if we were to bomb the civilians, we might as well be bombing the Russians themselves.
- mint2 5y ago>to stop Ukrainian civilians from “fleeing” into Russia “Fleeing” is a weird term for “join us or we bomb your children” China could step in and actually get Russia to follow through with a cease fire instead of claiming they’d have a cease fire only to shell civilians. If not that, I dunno there’s probably a few more things that could be tried but giving in to the demands of a madman bombing civilians, hospitals, residential areas and schools doesn’t seem ethical or helpful as it will encourage him to bomb more kids.
- s1artibartfast 5y agoCall it what you want, but what can the US/NATO do to stop civilians leaving? Perhaps I misread your posts, but it seemed that you feel something should be done to stop them.
- mint2 5y agoReally? Which part gave you that impression? All I was saying was 0.) this is not a choice where either option is remotely good, both options presented by Russia a terrible and arbitrarily dictated by Russia 1.) to call for what it is, Russia decided their options are to become Russian prisoners, hostages to use against their immediate family, or die by the Russian sieges. 2.) acknowledge that this rewards russias bombing and murdering of civilians, thus encouraging them to continue bombing and murdering civilians. 3.) Russia has repeatedly broken their word, promising to allow evacuations only to continue shelling, so any promises of treatment are worthless. 4.) there are other options some better like China stepping in behind the scenes to demand Putin a cease fire that isn’t violated or much worse options like a no fly zone.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- postalrat 5y agoSeems pretty tame compared to the genocide happening in the americas at that time.
- sdfgdf 5y ago
- iszomer 5y agoIsn't depopulating a strong buzzword? I guess in a different context covid19 could be used in the same way; all the drama in censorship of alternative therapeutics than shilling for big pharma.. Whataboutism aside, I watched an interesting recap [1] of Ukraine's history. Not sure if it's factually and objectively legitimate though. [1] Ukraine on Fire -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKcmNGvaDUs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKcmNGvaDUs
- blip54321 5y agoThis seems like a good way to get saboteurs and terrorist cells into Russia.
- Scarblac 5y agoWell they'll probably all be locked up immediately.
- vmception 5y agoIf they talk about the war, the same as Russian citizens Russia has given out nearly 1,000,000 passports and citizenship to Ukrainians in the eastern breakaway regions over the last two years
- neverminder 5y agoSaboteurs? Women and children? No, this is a good way to get free hostages. The best leverage against Ukrainian men fighting is having their families in custody.
- blip54321 5y agoI suspect Russia won't respect Ukraine's restriction on men leaving the country. And I suspect Ukrainian borderguards won't be anywhere close to the Russian-controlled border.
- electrondood 5y agoRed Cross found that the civilian evacuation route from Mariupol is mined [1]. This is going to be the most well-documented case of war crimes the ICC has ever tried. [1] https://www.novinite.com/articles/214142/The+Evacuation+Route+from+Mariupol+is+Mined%2C+Corridors+Lead+to+Russia+and+Belarus https://www.novinite.com/articles/214142/The+Evacuation+Rout...
- bigdict 5y agoWho mined it?
- pplante 5y agoI do not have a lot of faith that anyone of significance will be appropriately punished. Most likely if Putin is facing a defeat he will either deploy nukes and go out with everyone else, or go out like Hitler. The people in power will die or escape before anyone can be rounded up. How long they can exist on the run is a good question. I'm sure there is a regime somewhere that would offer safe haven.
- nirav72 5y ago>Most likely if Putin is facing a defeat he will either deploy nukes and go out with everyone else, or go out like Hitler. Spies are better at self-preservation than charismatic leaders that can give good speeches. I'm no fan of Putin. But its highly doubtful his end will be like Hitler's in a bunker. Besides, Putin's been running this game far longer than Hitler did.
- durnygbur 5y agoIt's a trap.
- kpjas 5y agoI don't know if you are aware that in Ukraine there's a sizeable population of ethnic Russians who speak Russian and identify themselves rather with Russia and who could feel hostility during the war and after Why wouldn't they choose Russia as a evacuation route in war ?