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I wish people wouldn't joke like this about "all politicians" because it is a key part of precisely the kind of nihilism and cynicism that leads to the outcomes

I wish people wouldn't joke like this about "all politicians" because it is a key part of precisely the kind of nihilism and cynicism that leads to the outcomes we're seeing in Europe right now: a textbook example of what happens when a President has cowed the entire political mechanism around him by manipulating just this kind of cynicism. Many politicians absolutely do good. Politics itself is not about doing good, it is about working towards the possible.

BurningFrog 5y ago
Politicians who focus on doing good are at an disadvantage to politicians who focus on getting elected. So we end up with mostly the latter.
- fulafel 5y ago
  Yes, you need to try to get elected. But getting elected is often connected with credibility in substance.
  - unfocussed_mike 5y ago
    I can see the point. One side of the US system is consistently better at getting elected than the other, and used to ideologically prefer the concept of a weaker form of governance.
  - BurningFrog 5y ago
    The honest politician is limited to telling the truth. The pragmatic one can say whatever maximizes their chance of winning.
    - unfocussed_mike 5y ago
      o/~ Talk less / Smile more / Don't let them know what you're against / Or you are for o/~
Clubber 5y ago
"Many politicians absolutely do good" I mean if you look at them with an uncritical eye, sure. The system is corrupt, at least in the US. Just look at what corporations pay in taxes. Can you name some US politicians that "do good," and what do you define as good? Talk is cheap, they all tell you what they think you want to hear. Think of all the corrupt systems in play that are detrimental to the us population: NAFTA, globalization, policing, qualified immunity, civil asset forfeiture abuse, mass surveillance, over-prosecution, ungodly military spending, school defunding, many more. Things these "do good" politicians just ignore. Doesn't that taint them at all in your mind?
- unfocussed_mike 5y ago
  "Doesn't that taint them at all in your mind?" Sit back and think about how leaving that thought unchallenged -- not looking for and appealing to the good in politicians -- leads inexorably to the kind of collapse of democracy that you nearly experienced less than a year ago.
  - Clubber 5y ago
    But ignoring it leads to perpetuating an even more corrupt system, no? Bad politicians need to be held accountable, yet we keep reelecting the same ones with the same self serving interests. Apply the same logic to other organizations. Are there good police? Sure. Are they still good if they ignore police brutality and cover it up? I would argue that would make them bad police. Currently if you drive with cash, police can pull you over and take it. They split it up with the federal government. You are left with no cash and are now responsible for hiring a lawyer to try to get it back. That is literally theft from the government. Which politicians are trying to stop this? How does legally stealing from citizens reenforce the faith in the rule of law? It doesn't. Rather than trying to blame the person pointing this stuff out for the decline of democracy, maybe put some blame on the people who write unjust laws.
    - unfocussed_mike 5y ago
      > But ignoring it leads to perpetuating an even more corrupt system, no? I guess it would but I said nothing about ignoring it.

BurningFrog 5y ago

Politicians who focus on doing good are at an disadvantage to politicians who focus on getting elected. So we end up with mostly the latter.

fulafel 5y ago
Yes, you need to try to get elected. But getting elected is often connected with credibility in substance.
- unfocussed_mike 5y ago
  I can see the point. One side of the US system is consistently better at getting elected than the other, and used to ideologically prefer the concept of a weaker form of governance.
- BurningFrog 5y ago
  The honest politician is limited to telling the truth. The pragmatic one can say whatever maximizes their chance of winning.
  - unfocussed_mike 5y ago
    o/~ Talk less / Smile more / Don't let them know what you're against / Or you are for o/~

Clubber 5y ago

"Many politicians absolutely do good" I mean if you look at them with an uncritical eye, sure. The system is corrupt, at least in the US. Just look at what corporations pay in taxes. Can you name some US politicians that "do good," and what do you define as good? Talk is cheap, they all tell you what they think you want to hear. Think of all the corrupt systems in play that are detrimental to the us population: NAFTA, globalization, policing, qualified immunity, civil asset forfeiture abuse, mass surveillance, over-prosecution, ungodly military spending, school defunding, many more. Things these "do good" politicians just ignore. Doesn't that taint them at all in your mind?

unfocussed_mike 5y ago
"Doesn't that taint them at all in your mind?" Sit back and think about how leaving that thought unchallenged -- not looking for and appealing to the good in politicians -- leads inexorably to the kind of collapse of democracy that you nearly experienced less than a year ago.
- Clubber 5y ago
  But ignoring it leads to perpetuating an even more corrupt system, no? Bad politicians need to be held accountable, yet we keep reelecting the same ones with the same self serving interests. Apply the same logic to other organizations. Are there good police? Sure. Are they still good if they ignore police brutality and cover it up? I would argue that would make them bad police. Currently if you drive with cash, police can pull you over and take it. They split it up with the federal government. You are left with no cash and are now responsible for hiring a lawyer to try to get it back. That is literally theft from the government. Which politicians are trying to stop this? How does legally stealing from citizens reenforce the faith in the rule of law? It doesn't. Rather than trying to blame the person pointing this stuff out for the decline of democracy, maybe put some blame on the people who write unjust laws.
  - unfocussed_mike 5y ago
    > But ignoring it leads to perpetuating an even more corrupt system, no? I guess it would but I said nothing about ignoring it.