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No, we're not all probably right. You're right. I'm right. cloutchaser is simply making posts ignorant of cultures and history. This is not uniquely western, bu
by blagie 5y ago
No, we're not all probably right. You're right. I'm right. cloutchaser is simply making posts ignorant of cultures and history. This is not uniquely western, but his list is just wrong:
- Mongols did not force ideals or cultures on the people they conquered. If you surrendered and paid tribute, you were free to do as you pleased.
- The Ottomans were mixed; you were pressured but not forced. Non-Muslims, for example, paid higher taxes.
Most long-lived empires let people do their thing. The Romans lasted for a millennium, and finally collapsed when (and in part because) they tried to impose Roman values on everyone, and that turned out to be more expensive than the empire could sustain.
These also aren't historic; I posted examples from the 1800s, but also recent ones.
The comment about Korea and individualism is just crazy too; Korea is probably the most deeply Confucian culture left.
Pointing out all of the historic and cultural errors would be an essay longer than the comments.
- cloutchaser 5y agoYou conveniently left out the Russians/soviets. And what you say about ottomans is also wrong. You should speak to historians in the affected countries. Mongols - perhaps you are right, if you were left alive, which was mostly women and children. So I guess for them they got to live free in the mongol empire...?
- blagie 5y agoI left out the Russians because they did impose quite a lot. In theory, the entire goal was to spread Communist ideology. In practice, it was a lot more imperialistic than that, but you were definitely under a boot. The level of ignorance here is staggering. The Mongols were pretty straightforward. For the most part, they would politely ask you to surrender. If you did, you were left alone to live as you saw fit, as part of a trade network, Mongol-friendly governance, and paying tribute. No one got killed. If you fought and lost, there was wholesale slaughter. Everyone got killed. There were a few in-betweens. There was no scenario like the one you're describing. The in-betweens might, for example, have skilled workers and artisans carted off. I won't get into a back-and-forth about the Ottomans. You have no idea my background, and you presume too much. You have no idea who I am, or whom I've spoken to.