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https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1500812687009267712 https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1500812687009267712 Russia apparently proposed 1. Zelens

by jug 5y ago

https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1500812687009267712 https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1500812687009267712 Russia apparently proposed 1. Zelensky remains pro forma president but Russia appoints Boiko as PM 2. Ukraine recognizes L/DNR and Crimea 3. No NATO, Ukraine writing into its constitution to be a neutral state Zelensky told them emphatically no. Russia just don't understand that even point 2 alone would be a very tough call for Ukraine, not to mention the rest.

pavlov 5y ago
Not much of a neutral state if its constitution is dictated by another country which also appoints the PM. This proposal must be only for internal Russian propaganda.
- publicola1990 5y ago
  Allies literally force wrote the neutrality clause on to the Austrian constitution after the second world war. Till date Austria is prevented from being a NATO member due to that clause.
  - gvb 5y ago
    Ahh, but the Allies won first. Russia is not in that position.
  - ant6n 5y ago
    Austria can decide to stay neutral or not. In fact just today they decided to stay neutral.
  - _djo_ 5y ago
    Nobody at the time denied that Austria was an occupied state. Which was perfectly reasonable given its position as having started WWII as part of Germany. Same reason Germany and Japan were both under allied control and occupation for a while after the war. The situations are not comparable.
- jonnycomputer 5y ago
  No, it might also be aimed at Ukranians who have suffered tremendously. Here is a way out of their misery, Putin says, and the price is so small, he says.
treis 5y ago
If this is really all that Russia wants then this is a really stupid war. (2) has defacto already happened. (3) Constitutions can be changed and there's no reason Ukraine can't abrogate the treaty in the future. They were never getting into NATO while in a shooting war with Russia any way. If you're running from a bear you don't make big sudden movements. You slowly back away until the danger has passed and then do whatever you wanted.
jonathanstrange 5y ago
Absolutely ludicrous.

by jug 5y ago

pavlov 5y ago

Not much of a neutral state if its constitution is dictated by another country which also appoints the PM. This proposal must be only for internal Russian propaganda.

publicola1990 5y ago
Allies literally force wrote the neutrality clause on to the Austrian constitution after the second world war. Till date Austria is prevented from being a NATO member due to that clause.
- gvb 5y ago
  Ahh, but the Allies won first. Russia is not in that position.
- ant6n 5y ago
  Austria can decide to stay neutral or not. In fact just today they decided to stay neutral.
- _djo_ 5y ago
  Nobody at the time denied that Austria was an occupied state. Which was perfectly reasonable given its position as having started WWII as part of Germany. Same reason Germany and Japan were both under allied control and occupation for a while after the war. The situations are not comparable.
jonnycomputer 5y ago
No, it might also be aimed at Ukranians who have suffered tremendously. Here is a way out of their misery, Putin says, and the price is so small, he says.

treis 5y ago

If this is really all that Russia wants then this is a really stupid war. (2) has defacto already happened. (3) Constitutions can be changed and there's no reason Ukraine can't abrogate the treaty in the future. They were never getting into NATO while in a shooting war with Russia any way. If you're running from a bear you don't make big sudden movements. You slowly back away until the danger has passed and then do whatever you wanted.

jonathanstrange 5y ago

Absolutely ludicrous.