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Yes, but I'm not sure we can trust what's coming out of Ukraine/Zelensky either, like 10K Russians killed, victory is imminent, etc. This way at least we may ge

Yes, but I'm not sure we can trust what's coming out of Ukraine/Zelensky either, like 10K Russians killed, victory is imminent, etc. This way at least we may get tidbits from the other side, including arguments/thoughts from Russia side. E.g., I saw a post yesterday on Medium that Ukraine is discriminating against black refugees (https://medium.com/alternative-perspectives/why-are-black-people-being-prevented-from-leaving-ukraine-26f42f1783f1 https://medium.com/alternative-perspectives/why-are-black-pe...). If you're only listening to the Ukraine friendly media, you'll miss that (IMO important fact).

emteycz 5y ago
There are individual excesses, but definitely no kind of systematic discrimination. Excesses like this happen even in Germany during peace.
- DyslexicAtheist 5y ago
  what I noticed were reports against discrimination against South Asians (India was very vocal). It needs to be mentioned that India has not yet condemned Russia for the invasion and plays itself neutral. They are also the "I" in BRIC and therefore must be seen on the side of Russia until they make it perfectly clear. I'm not surprised that they aren't treated with silk-gloves by Ukraine (student or worker or whatever reason they're there for). It's India's responsibility to set the record straight so that UA knows if the people still in the country will be targeted back home for intel that can help Russia. It's reckless from the Modi government to throw them under the bus in this manner, but it's not unexpected.
DyslexicAtheist 5y ago
listening to the other extreme isn't giving you their POV or even their perception of reality. it just gives you what they want you to believe, and more propaganda. if the aim is not simply more entertainment for our lizard brain (voluntary indoctrination while being also fully aware that this is what's happening), then the better way for seeking truth isn't to hear all sides but to find outlets that are not having a horse in this race. (which unfortunately is almost impossible, but my point stands that it will not add value for seeking truth)
- pydry 5y ago
  Al Jazeera is probably the closest to that. They actually interviewed some DPR/LPR rebels, for instance. You wouldnt catch CNN doing that. They also seem to put the greatest emphasis on human suffering, which is a bias im in favor of. There is value to reading propaganda to have wider visibility though, especially since most propaganda selectively presents the truth rather than outright lying and both sides will often simply choose to present similar events in a different context.
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loudmax 5y ago
There's no question that discrimination against Ukrainian refugees of non-European origin is reprehensible. The trouble is keeping a sense of the scale of this injustice compared to the scale of the invasion. Failing to give aid to African and South Asian university students trying to flee the war is bad. Vladimir Putin's media outlets would have us believe that since there is some good and some bad on both sides, therefore we should take no side in this war. No society or people on Earth are perfect. Don't let them convince you that this means you should never take a stand.
- deleted 5y ago
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lm28469 5y ago
> what's coming out of Ukraine/Zelensky either What's coming out of Ukraine/Zelensky are optimistic numbers and morale boosting statements mostly based on real events What's coming out of Putin and RT is pure fantasy and has virtually no basis on real world events: Ukranian government are Nazis, Ukrain population is mostly pro Russia, Ukraine is mostly welcoming Russian troops, it's a liberation operation, &c. > I saw a post yesterday on Medium that Ukraine is discriminating against black refugee Is Medium being censored ? Is medium a Russian source ? See, you can still get informations of all kind without RT. And calling that "the russian" side is a stretch. It is used by russian propaganda to pretend ukranians are monster though (which is ironic considering Russian stance but whatever)

emteycz 5y ago

There are individual excesses, but definitely no kind of systematic discrimination. Excesses like this happen even in Germany during peace.

DyslexicAtheist 5y ago
what I noticed were reports against discrimination against South Asians (India was very vocal). It needs to be mentioned that India has not yet condemned Russia for the invasion and plays itself neutral. They are also the "I" in BRIC and therefore must be seen on the side of Russia until they make it perfectly clear. I'm not surprised that they aren't treated with silk-gloves by Ukraine (student or worker or whatever reason they're there for). It's India's responsibility to set the record straight so that UA knows if the people still in the country will be targeted back home for intel that can help Russia. It's reckless from the Modi government to throw them under the bus in this manner, but it's not unexpected.

DyslexicAtheist 5y ago

listening to the other extreme isn't giving you their POV or even their perception of reality. it just gives you what they want you to believe, and more propaganda. if the aim is not simply more entertainment for our lizard brain (voluntary indoctrination while being also fully aware that this is what's happening), then the better way for seeking truth isn't to hear all sides but to find outlets that are not having a horse in this race. (which unfortunately is almost impossible, but my point stands that it will not add value for seeking truth)

pydry 5y ago
Al Jazeera is probably the closest to that. They actually interviewed some DPR/LPR rebels, for instance. You wouldnt catch CNN doing that. They also seem to put the greatest emphasis on human suffering, which is a bias im in favor of. There is value to reading propaganda to have wider visibility though, especially since most propaganda selectively presents the truth rather than outright lying and both sides will often simply choose to present similar events in a different context.

deleted 5y ago

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loudmax 5y ago

There's no question that discrimination against Ukrainian refugees of non-European origin is reprehensible. The trouble is keeping a sense of the scale of this injustice compared to the scale of the invasion. Failing to give aid to African and South Asian university students trying to flee the war is bad. Vladimir Putin's media outlets would have us believe that since there is some good and some bad on both sides, therefore we should take no side in this war. No society or people on Earth are perfect. Don't let them convince you that this means you should never take a stand.

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lm28469 5y ago

> what's coming out of Ukraine/Zelensky either What's coming out of Ukraine/Zelensky are optimistic numbers and morale boosting statements mostly based on real events What's coming out of Putin and RT is pure fantasy and has virtually no basis on real world events: Ukranian government are Nazis, Ukrain population is mostly pro Russia, Ukraine is mostly welcoming Russian troops, it's a liberation operation, &c. > I saw a post yesterday on Medium that Ukraine is discriminating against black refugee Is Medium being censored ? Is medium a Russian source ? See, you can still get informations of all kind without RT. And calling that "the russian" side is a stretch. It is used by russian propaganda to pretend ukranians are monster though (which is ironic considering Russian stance but whatever)