4 ms·

You'd care if you were plugging up 1kW lightbulbs instead of 100W bulbs.

GekkePrutser 5y ago
Those are called space heaters :) In fact a company in Germany tried to circumvent the EU ban on lightbulbs by calling then heatballs. Makes sense because as a heater they're very efficient.
- samatman 5y ago
  There also are (or were) a lot of consumer products which used ordinary incandescents for heat. The familiar example to Americans of a certain age is the EZ-Bake Oven, but there was a long tail of others, because if you wanted an off-the-shelf source for ~40-150W of heat, and the light is either a plus or neutral, it was tough to beat an Edison bulb and socket.
  - BeefWellington 5y ago
    Another example of this: Bird sanctuaries are harmed by the ban in some ways (though in the meantime they've no doubt found alternatives) because incandescent bulbs make great heaters.[1] [1]: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/incandescent-bulb-ban-leaves-bird-care-centre-with-dim-hope-1.2492890 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/incandescent-bulb-ban-...
- mlyle 5y ago
  > Makes sense because as a heater they're very efficient. Resistive heat (like a light bulb or space heater) is terribly inefficient. Resistive heat up high (in a ceiling or on a light) is even worse than resistive heat at ground level, because the heat escapes the dwelling without heating the occupants in the room much.
  - pooper 5y ago
    > Resistive heat (like a light bulb or space heater) is terribly inefficient. My personal concept of resistive heat is effective comes from a YouTube channel called Technology Connections. The argument is that almost all of the energy taken in by an electric resistive heater is given out as heat so it is pretty close to 100% efficiency. I understand that a heat pump is practically a better alternative for almost all use cases though. Similarly, speaking of electric light bulbs, my understanding is there is no reason why an LED light bulb shouldn't last over ten years of continuous use. At least that is my impression from this reddit comment (please correct me if I am wrong) https://old.reddit.com/r/HomeImprovement/comments/leunb1/why_are_my_led_light_bulbs_burning_out_so_fast/gmi6c1v/ https://old.reddit.com/r/HomeImprovement/comments/leunb1/why... > There are many poorly manufactured LED lights out there. The LED itself is typically fine, but the driver electronics in the base tend to fail on poor quality products. > I was having lots of failures for a while, but much less lately as I've tried to look for more brand name products.
    - blihp 5y ago
      And yet I've had two (name brand) LED bulbs die in the past year with <3 years of operational life. The drivers in most of these bulbs are garbage.
      - terr-dav 5y ago
        It's a shame that they can advertise the life of the diode itself with no regard for the rest of the electronics.
    - nicoburns 5y ago
      The second problem with LEDs is heat. LEDs produce a lot less heat than incandescents, but they also deal much worse with getting hot. Thus you need large (for surface area) and/or expensive (due to more expensive materials with high conductivity) heat sinks. Cheaper bulbs will tend to cheap out on this aspect, but there are also fundamental constraints especially in bulbs designed to fit traditional fittings.
    - liminvorous 5y ago
  - zajio1am 5y ago
    > Resistive heat (like a light bulb or space heater) is terribly inefficient. Resistive heat has efficiency ~1. That is better that almost any other heating source with exception of heat pumps and cogeneration. If we consider visible light as a separate gain, then light bulb has efficiency ~1.02 > Resistive heat up high (in a ceiling or on a light) is even worse than resistive heat at ground level, because the heat escapes the dwelling without heating the occupants in the room much. For light bulb, i guess most energy is dissipated by IR radiation and only small part by convection. So it heats whole room and occupants, but not air.
    - blihp 5y ago
      I have no idea what the percentages are but based on a lifetime of anecdotal experience esp with incandescent, I'd bet you're wrong. Being across the room from a light bulb will warm you a bit, but nothing like proximity to the bulb, especially when you're above it.
      - robotresearcher 5y ago
        A bare lightbulb is almost an anisotropic point source. You can put a reflector around it to target the IR in some direction. Its energy efficiency at the bulb is the same, i.e. nearly perfect. The energy delivered to target is different.
      - hnuser123456 5y ago
        You're also being hit with more IR when you're closer. That being said, getting the same amount of light from an LED seems to only take 10% as much power, but they're also probably putting out much less IR, but LEDs still heat up a little, ...
    - nicoburns 5y ago
      > Resistive heat has efficiency ~1 It does if you only consider the efficiency of the electricity -> heat conversion, but electricity generation itself is often not that efficient. It can be a lot more efficient to go fuel -> heat than fuel -> electricity -> heat.
    - 5y ago
- skocznymroczny 5y ago
  It's still a thing in Poland. They are either sold as heatballs or workshop light (doesn't have strobe effect which could be potentially dangerous around saws). That was mostly when fluorescent lightbulbs were the only alternative. These days people go for LED lightbulbs instead.
- shagie 5y ago
  One trick of cold rooms and frozen pipes - put a light bulb in there. In the (old) house that I'm in, there's a room that is for all practical purposes, under the garage. It is very poorly insulated and for some reason, some water pipes ran through it. On a cold winter, the pipes can freeze. So, there's a lightbulb in there that for several years kept the pipes from freezing. The pipes have since been rerouted. The next step up from just a lightbulb is to put a Y connector with two lightbulbs on it and screw a dusk to dawn sensor into one of the branches and then another lightbulb into that. This way, if the primary lightbulb burns out, the other one will turn on.
- _carbyau_ 5y ago
  Nowadays space heaters are for bitcoin/ethereum production. I keep wondering when ASIC+5G "electric heaters" will be nearly given away to people.

Those are called space heaters :) In fact a company in Germany tried to circumvent the EU ban on lightbulbs by calling then heatballs. Makes sense because as a heater they're very efficient.

samatman 5y ago
There also are (or were) a lot of consumer products which used ordinary incandescents for heat. The familiar example to Americans of a certain age is the EZ-Bake Oven, but there was a long tail of others, because if you wanted an off-the-shelf source for ~40-150W of heat, and the light is either a plus or neutral, it was tough to beat an Edison bulb and socket.
- BeefWellington 5y ago
  Another example of this: Bird sanctuaries are harmed by the ban in some ways (though in the meantime they've no doubt found alternatives) because incandescent bulbs make great heaters.[1] [1]: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/incandescent-bulb-ban-leaves-bird-care-centre-with-dim-hope-1.2492890 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/incandescent-bulb-ban-...
mlyle 5y ago
> Makes sense because as a heater they're very efficient. Resistive heat (like a light bulb or space heater) is terribly inefficient. Resistive heat up high (in a ceiling or on a light) is even worse than resistive heat at ground level, because the heat escapes the dwelling without heating the occupants in the room much.
- pooper 5y ago
  > Resistive heat (like a light bulb or space heater) is terribly inefficient. My personal concept of resistive heat is effective comes from a YouTube channel called Technology Connections. The argument is that almost all of the energy taken in by an electric resistive heater is given out as heat so it is pretty close to 100% efficiency. I understand that a heat pump is practically a better alternative for almost all use cases though. Similarly, speaking of electric light bulbs, my understanding is there is no reason why an LED light bulb shouldn't last over ten years of continuous use. At least that is my impression from this reddit comment (please correct me if I am wrong) https://old.reddit.com/r/HomeImprovement/comments/leunb1/why_are_my_led_light_bulbs_burning_out_so_fast/gmi6c1v/ https://old.reddit.com/r/HomeImprovement/comments/leunb1/why... > There are many poorly manufactured LED lights out there. The LED itself is typically fine, but the driver electronics in the base tend to fail on poor quality products. > I was having lots of failures for a while, but much less lately as I've tried to look for more brand name products.
  - blihp 5y ago
    And yet I've had two (name brand) LED bulbs die in the past year with <3 years of operational life. The drivers in most of these bulbs are garbage.
    - terr-dav 5y ago
      It's a shame that they can advertise the life of the diode itself with no regard for the rest of the electronics.
  - nicoburns 5y ago
    The second problem with LEDs is heat. LEDs produce a lot less heat than incandescents, but they also deal much worse with getting hot. Thus you need large (for surface area) and/or expensive (due to more expensive materials with high conductivity) heat sinks. Cheaper bulbs will tend to cheap out on this aspect, but there are also fundamental constraints especially in bulbs designed to fit traditional fittings.
  - liminvorous 5y ago
- zajio1am 5y ago
  > Resistive heat (like a light bulb or space heater) is terribly inefficient. Resistive heat has efficiency ~1. That is better that almost any other heating source with exception of heat pumps and cogeneration. If we consider visible light as a separate gain, then light bulb has efficiency ~1.02 > Resistive heat up high (in a ceiling or on a light) is even worse than resistive heat at ground level, because the heat escapes the dwelling without heating the occupants in the room much. For light bulb, i guess most energy is dissipated by IR radiation and only small part by convection. So it heats whole room and occupants, but not air.
  - blihp 5y ago
    I have no idea what the percentages are but based on a lifetime of anecdotal experience esp with incandescent, I'd bet you're wrong. Being across the room from a light bulb will warm you a bit, but nothing like proximity to the bulb, especially when you're above it.
    - robotresearcher 5y ago
      A bare lightbulb is almost an anisotropic point source. You can put a reflector around it to target the IR in some direction. Its energy efficiency at the bulb is the same, i.e. nearly perfect. The energy delivered to target is different.
    - hnuser123456 5y ago
      You're also being hit with more IR when you're closer. That being said, getting the same amount of light from an LED seems to only take 10% as much power, but they're also probably putting out much less IR, but LEDs still heat up a little, ...
  - nicoburns 5y ago
    > Resistive heat has efficiency ~1 It does if you only consider the efficiency of the electricity -> heat conversion, but electricity generation itself is often not that efficient. It can be a lot more efficient to go fuel -> heat than fuel -> electricity -> heat.
  - 5y ago
skocznymroczny 5y ago
It's still a thing in Poland. They are either sold as heatballs or workshop light (doesn't have strobe effect which could be potentially dangerous around saws). That was mostly when fluorescent lightbulbs were the only alternative. These days people go for LED lightbulbs instead.
shagie 5y ago
One trick of cold rooms and frozen pipes - put a light bulb in there. In the (old) house that I'm in, there's a room that is for all practical purposes, under the garage. It is very poorly insulated and for some reason, some water pipes ran through it. On a cold winter, the pipes can freeze. So, there's a lightbulb in there that for several years kept the pipes from freezing. The pipes have since been rerouted. The next step up from just a lightbulb is to put a Y connector with two lightbulbs on it and screw a dusk to dawn sensor into one of the branches and then another lightbulb into that. This way, if the primary lightbulb burns out, the other one will turn on.
_carbyau_ 5y ago
Nowadays space heaters are for bitcoin/ethereum production. I keep wondering when ASIC+5G "electric heaters" will be nearly given away to people.