8 ms·

That's only a choice for Putin and his inner circle. The wast majority of Russian people have nothing to do with what the state is doing.

wongarsu 5y ago
Any state ultimately derives its power from the people. There are countless examples of this, from peaceful protests to civil disobedience, violent revolutions and military coups. Or from a different perspective: if the opinion of the citizens doesn't matter, then why is Putin shutting down independent journalism and turning up the propaganda in his own country? That only makes sense if he cares what the public thinks.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- ben_w 5y ago
  The very fact that opposing media is being shut down, matters. Shutting down the media limits the average person’s reason to know there is even a thing to protest against. It’s not absolute power over the people, but it does diminish the power of the people.
  - SyzygistSix 5y ago
    It's also an obvious sign to anyone with half a brain that the remaining state run media is full of lies.
    - ben_w 5y ago
      Harder to spot if you don’t have an outside view. From inside, all you hear and see is that the media which was shut down were “evil propagandist” aligned with $ENEMY who wanted to harm $NATION by spreading lies about $POLITICAL_BUZZWORD.
- 8358373583 5y ago
  No a state derives its power from capacity for and willingness to use violence. The state is whatever group has the most of that in a given area. The population can obviously be a threat to a state, but it's ridiculous to expect people to risk their life to stop a state just because they happened to be born in its territory.
jnsaff2 5y ago
The vast majority approve of putin regime.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- satellite2 5y ago
  The vast majority has no trusted source to understand Putin's regime
  - ModernMech 5y ago
    Indeed hence why sanctions are so important. They act as a channel to tell them something is up with what their beloved leader is doing. The TV tells them their patriotic war is highly popular and well justified, yet they can’t buy iPhones anymore. Well, maybe just maybe they will wake up. Because people are protesting and going to jail there, so it’s not impossible to know what’s going on. It just takes the willingness not to dismiss anything against Putin as “fake news”.
  - Koshkin 5y ago
    As long as the stomach is full, there is nothing to understand.
    - notpachet 5y ago
      As long as the brain is full, there is nothing to eat!
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
- walkhour 5y ago
  It's amazing how many people ignore this, pretending only a lonely lunatic thinks this is a good idea. Putin's approval rating is at 70% [0]. From [1] (referring to the invasion of Crimea): > President Putin's approval rating among the Russian public increased by nearly 10% since the crisis began, up to 71.6%, the highest in three years, according to a poll conducted by the All-Russian Center for Public Opinion Research, released on 19 March.[346] Additionally, the same poll showed that more than 90% of Russians supported unification with the Crimean Republic So it looks to me that most Russians supported the Crimea invasion. Why would it be different now? I find it hard to believe that if Russia hadn't found such a stubborn resistance and would've been able to annex Ucrania quickly, which was what the Russian government thought would happen, in five years all the polls wouldn't show Russians supporting the invasion. [0] https://www.statista.com/statistics/896181/putin-approval-ra https://www.statista.com/statistics/896181/putin-approval-ra... [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_...
ChuckNorris89 5y ago
>The wast majority of Russian people have nothing to do with what the state is doing. Then they can all take to the streets and protest against the regime to make their PoV heard. Sure, the protesters will clash with the police/military who will use force against them, but if it's indeed the vast majority of people as you claim, against the regime, then the police/military cannot overwhelm over ~80 million people on the streets. If the vast majority refuse to take to the streets in protest, then it means they silently or otherwise approve the government's actions. It's up to the Russian people to sort out their politics, by violent force if need be, if they're truly unhappy with the past 30 years of fake democracy and corruption among their leadership. Same how in 1989 people and students in Romania took to the streets, en masse, to oust the dictator Nicolae Ceausescu, who refused to step down and had the military shoot the protestors. Spoiler alert: he still got ousted, so the excuse that "we can't protest in Russia against Putin" does not fly.
- hutrdvnj 5y ago
  Thing is that people in russia are flooded with false information and Putin propaganda. If you trust these kind of news (like many US citizens believe in stuff that Trump says including voter fraud), then there's no need for them to stand up. And everyone who is trying to tell the truth will go to prison.
- _abox 5y ago
  One thing that comes to mind about Ceausescu, when I visited his 'palace' (the people's house) was how many escape routes and hidden exits there were (including apparently a network of tunnels under the city) For a man who is said to have thought the people deeply loved him, he sure was paranoid. Or maybe he actually knew how much people hated him and he was just fooling himself? But Putin is nowhere as unpopular as Ceausescu was. His approval ratings that I've seen are no different from those of Western leaders. A lot of people there seem to believe Ukraine is full of Nazis. Nobody is going to storm his palace any time soon and I don't think the sanctions will help. They'll just reinforce his "the West is out to get us" narrative. Don't forget they don't have anything reminiscent of a free press anymore.
- hogrider 5y ago
ajuc 5y ago
If even 10% of Russians protested Putin would cease to be a problem. The problem is - as long as the economy is fine they don't care.
- helge9210 5y ago
  > The problem is - as long as the economy is fine they don't care Personal anecdote: In April 2010 I was protesting ratification of the so called "Kharkiv Pact" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kharkiv_Pact https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kharkiv_Pact) in Kyiv. I remember a moment, when I was single-handedly pushing three rows of soldiers (national guard; they didn't really try) and almost no one else joined, one of the members of our group said to another: "There won't be a revolution today. Let's wait till they start losing money, then we'll try again".
- lisnake 5y ago
  Last year at least 60% of Belarus protested Lukaschenko, and did it for months. What good did that bring them? 10% is not nearly enough for Russian situation
  - sidibe 5y ago
    Probably would have been effective if not for Putin's support
    - monocasa 5y ago
      Putin also has Putin's support.

wongarsu 5y ago

Any state ultimately derives its power from the people. There are countless examples of this, from peaceful protests to civil disobedience, violent revolutions and military coups. Or from a different perspective: if the opinion of the citizens doesn't matter, then why is Putin shutting down independent journalism and turning up the propaganda in his own country? That only makes sense if he cares what the public thinks.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
ben_w 5y ago
The very fact that opposing media is being shut down, matters. Shutting down the media limits the average person’s reason to know there is even a thing to protest against. It’s not absolute power over the people, but it does diminish the power of the people.
- SyzygistSix 5y ago
  It's also an obvious sign to anyone with half a brain that the remaining state run media is full of lies.
  - ben_w 5y ago
    Harder to spot if you don’t have an outside view. From inside, all you hear and see is that the media which was shut down were “evil propagandist” aligned with $ENEMY who wanted to harm $NATION by spreading lies about $POLITICAL_BUZZWORD.
8358373583 5y ago
No a state derives its power from capacity for and willingness to use violence. The state is whatever group has the most of that in a given area. The population can obviously be a threat to a state, but it's ridiculous to expect people to risk their life to stop a state just because they happened to be born in its territory.

jnsaff2 5y ago

The vast majority approve of putin regime.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
satellite2 5y ago
The vast majority has no trusted source to understand Putin's regime
- ModernMech 5y ago
  Indeed hence why sanctions are so important. They act as a channel to tell them something is up with what their beloved leader is doing. The TV tells them their patriotic war is highly popular and well justified, yet they can’t buy iPhones anymore. Well, maybe just maybe they will wake up. Because people are protesting and going to jail there, so it’s not impossible to know what’s going on. It just takes the willingness not to dismiss anything against Putin as “fake news”.
- Koshkin 5y ago
  As long as the stomach is full, there is nothing to understand.
  - notpachet 5y ago
    As long as the brain is full, there is nothing to eat!
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
walkhour 5y ago
It's amazing how many people ignore this, pretending only a lonely lunatic thinks this is a good idea. Putin's approval rating is at 70% [0]. From [1] (referring to the invasion of Crimea): > President Putin's approval rating among the Russian public increased by nearly 10% since the crisis began, up to 71.6%, the highest in three years, according to a poll conducted by the All-Russian Center for Public Opinion Research, released on 19 March.[346] Additionally, the same poll showed that more than 90% of Russians supported unification with the Crimean Republic So it looks to me that most Russians supported the Crimea invasion. Why would it be different now? I find it hard to believe that if Russia hadn't found such a stubborn resistance and would've been able to annex Ucrania quickly, which was what the Russian government thought would happen, in five years all the polls wouldn't show Russians supporting the invasion. [0] https://www.statista.com/statistics/896181/putin-approval-ra https://www.statista.com/statistics/896181/putin-approval-ra... [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_...

ChuckNorris89 5y ago

>The wast majority of Russian people have nothing to do with what the state is doing. Then they can all take to the streets and protest against the regime to make their PoV heard. Sure, the protesters will clash with the police/military who will use force against them, but if it's indeed the vast majority of people as you claim, against the regime, then the police/military cannot overwhelm over ~80 million people on the streets. If the vast majority refuse to take to the streets in protest, then it means they silently or otherwise approve the government's actions. It's up to the Russian people to sort out their politics, by violent force if need be, if they're truly unhappy with the past 30 years of fake democracy and corruption among their leadership. Same how in 1989 people and students in Romania took to the streets, en masse, to oust the dictator Nicolae Ceausescu, who refused to step down and had the military shoot the protestors. Spoiler alert: he still got ousted, so the excuse that "we can't protest in Russia against Putin" does not fly.

hutrdvnj 5y ago
Thing is that people in russia are flooded with false information and Putin propaganda. If you trust these kind of news (like many US citizens believe in stuff that Trump says including voter fraud), then there's no need for them to stand up. And everyone who is trying to tell the truth will go to prison.
_abox 5y ago
One thing that comes to mind about Ceausescu, when I visited his 'palace' (the people's house) was how many escape routes and hidden exits there were (including apparently a network of tunnels under the city) For a man who is said to have thought the people deeply loved him, he sure was paranoid. Or maybe he actually knew how much people hated him and he was just fooling himself? But Putin is nowhere as unpopular as Ceausescu was. His approval ratings that I've seen are no different from those of Western leaders. A lot of people there seem to believe Ukraine is full of Nazis. Nobody is going to storm his palace any time soon and I don't think the sanctions will help. They'll just reinforce his "the West is out to get us" narrative. Don't forget they don't have anything reminiscent of a free press anymore.
hogrider 5y ago

ajuc 5y ago

If even 10% of Russians protested Putin would cease to be a problem. The problem is - as long as the economy is fine they don't care.

helge9210 5y ago
> The problem is - as long as the economy is fine they don't care Personal anecdote: In April 2010 I was protesting ratification of the so called "Kharkiv Pact" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kharkiv_Pact https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kharkiv_Pact) in Kyiv. I remember a moment, when I was single-handedly pushing three rows of soldiers (national guard; they didn't really try) and almost no one else joined, one of the members of our group said to another: "There won't be a revolution today. Let's wait till they start losing money, then we'll try again".
lisnake 5y ago
Last year at least 60% of Belarus protested Lukaschenko, and did it for months. What good did that bring them? 10% is not nearly enough for Russian situation
- sidibe 5y ago
  Probably would have been effective if not for Putin's support
  - monocasa 5y ago
    Putin also has Putin's support.