4 ms·

> are not the ones making the decision you're objecting to No one is making this as a decision. Restaurant owners that have tried to put in place a no tipping

> are not the ones making the decision you're objecting to No one is making this as a decision. Restaurant owners that have tried to put in place a no tipping policy have customers tip anyway because Americans are uncomfortable not tipping. They then think, somewhat accurately, the restaurant has high prices. We are stuck with a bad system.

ethbr0 5y ago
It's not a bad system, per se, but is a poorly documented system. There should be a note on American menus that says "We underpay our staff, so 15-20% tipping is expected." And European menus should read "We compensate our staff sufficiently, so tipping is not expected." In reality, both of these are never written out, and everyone is expected to learn them culturally. Which ultimately leaves tourists in an awkward spot.
- iudqnolq 5y ago
  Agreed, except that I think it's poorly document and a bad system. That's why I started this by saying I'd have an issue with someone who kept not tipping after being informed about the issue.
  - ethbr0 5y ago
    The bad or not feels arbitrary. It's "different". But I'd be hard pressed to come up with a reason that "customer -> staff" is objectively better or worse than "customer -> owner -> staff". Same money, gets to the same place.
- JshWright 5y ago
  > There should be a note on American menus that says "We underpay our staff, so 15-20% tipping is expected." I was recently in a restaurant that had exactly that. There was a fine print note at the bottom of the menu explaining that because a state law prevented servers from splitting tips with the kitchen staff, a 3% surcharge would be added to the check so that non-tipped staff could "earn a living wage". https://www.squidlipsgrill.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/SquidLips_SLW_CBR0222-final_Page_1-1.jpg https://www.squidlipsgrill.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Sq...
- Symbiote 5y ago
  In France, bills usually say "service compris" which means "service included". In Britain, bills usually say "Service charge" or "Service is included" [1] But I think these are exceptions, and I wouldn't expect it in general -- just like it doesn't say "Service included" when I buy a buy shoes in France or Britain, even though the staff usually have to fetch them from the stock room. [1] https://i.inews.co.uk/content/uploads/2019/01/oh.jpg https://i.inews.co.uk/content/uploads/2019/01/oh.jpg
- bradleyjg 5y ago
  * In reality, both of these are never written out, and everyone is expected to learn them culturally. Which ultimately leaves tourists in an awkward spot.* It does more than confuse tourists, it locks every restaurant into the system whether the owners wish it or not. That’s why I think the “we underpay” with its pejorative tinge is inappropriate.

ethbr0 5y ago

It's not a bad system, per se, but is a poorly documented system. There should be a note on American menus that says "We underpay our staff, so 15-20% tipping is expected." And European menus should read "We compensate our staff sufficiently, so tipping is not expected." In reality, both of these are never written out, and everyone is expected to learn them culturally. Which ultimately leaves tourists in an awkward spot.

iudqnolq 5y ago
Agreed, except that I think it's poorly document and a bad system. That's why I started this by saying I'd have an issue with someone who kept not tipping after being informed about the issue.
- ethbr0 5y ago
  The bad or not feels arbitrary. It's "different". But I'd be hard pressed to come up with a reason that "customer -> staff" is objectively better or worse than "customer -> owner -> staff". Same money, gets to the same place.
JshWright 5y ago
> There should be a note on American menus that says "We underpay our staff, so 15-20% tipping is expected." I was recently in a restaurant that had exactly that. There was a fine print note at the bottom of the menu explaining that because a state law prevented servers from splitting tips with the kitchen staff, a 3% surcharge would be added to the check so that non-tipped staff could "earn a living wage". https://www.squidlipsgrill.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/SquidLips_SLW_CBR0222-final_Page_1-1.jpg https://www.squidlipsgrill.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Sq...
Symbiote 5y ago
In France, bills usually say "service compris" which means "service included". In Britain, bills usually say "Service charge" or "Service is included" [1] But I think these are exceptions, and I wouldn't expect it in general -- just like it doesn't say "Service included" when I buy a buy shoes in France or Britain, even though the staff usually have to fetch them from the stock room. [1] https://i.inews.co.uk/content/uploads/2019/01/oh.jpg https://i.inews.co.uk/content/uploads/2019/01/oh.jpg
bradleyjg 5y ago
* In reality, both of these are never written out, and everyone is expected to learn them culturally. Which ultimately leaves tourists in an awkward spot.* It does more than confuse tourists, it locks every restaurant into the system whether the owners wish it or not. That’s why I think the “we underpay” with its pejorative tinge is inappropriate.