3 ms·

We're not being a little too cute. If you are supposed to be able to access YouTube from Firefox or Chrome, then you are also supposed to be able to access it v

We're not being a little too cute. If you are supposed to be able to access YouTube from Firefox or Chrome, then you are also supposed to be able to access it via youtube-dl, given all of those are HTTP clients. Saying otherwise would be setting a dangerous precedent of trying to legislate which HTTP clients are allowed and which are disallowed.

lelandfe 5y ago
Surely things like Widevine show that that precedent has already been set? There are many online things that cannot be consumed by unblessed clients.
- feanaro 5y ago
  Surely the fact that a single blemish exists does not imply that we should just curl up in a hole and admit defeat. The fact that Widevine exists does little to damage the core of the above argument.
  - lelandfe 5y ago
    My point is that this is fundamentally not a viable argument anymore: > If you are supposed to be able to access YouTube from Firefox or Chrome, then you are also supposed to be able to access it via youtube-dl Were this an axiom, services like Netflix simply could not exist. We're defeated whether we admit it or not – browser DRM is not being yanked from browsers anytime soon. That's not even talking about its forebears, like Silverlight, Flash, Applets, etc.
    - feanaro 5y ago
      The difference is DRM is a technical-only measure in most countries. The services employing DRM are scumbags, but they're welcome to try it. That doesn't mean that ridiculous positions such as trying to legally forbid access to a website other than through a handful of sanctioned browsers is going to fly.
paulcole 5y ago
I can go to an all you can eat restaurant with my empty stomach. I can’t go to an all you can eat restaurant with an empty garbage bag to fill up with food for later.
- leothecool 5y ago
  As a garbage bag manufacturer, can you advertise that your garbage bags are for that purpose?
  - paulcole 5y ago
    No. But there are many great, moral, and legal uses for garbage bags which can be advertised.
- feanaro 5y ago
  It's a cute analogy, except it fails to explain why youtube-dl is the garbage bag in this instance. If we step away from analogies for a bit, are you actually arguing that we shouldn't have the ability to modify the markup and the code before we display it on our computers? If you insist on making a cute physical analogy, a more apt one would be of a tyrant buying out all the stores and allowing free entry on the condition that people's eyelids are forcibly taped open before they enter. After some reasonable people start removing the tape from their eyelids, the tyrant throws a tantrum and attempts to legislate away removing eyelid tape.
  - paulcole 5y ago
    > it fails to explain why youtube-dl is the garbage bag in this instance No it doesn't. The buffet lets me eat as much as I want while I'm in their restaurant following their house rules. The garbage bag lets me take food out of the restaurant and consume a much larger amount of food however/whenever/wherever I choose – something the restaurant has forbid me to do according to their rules. This feels very much like what Youtube DL allows me to do.
    - 5y ago

lelandfe 5y ago

Surely things like Widevine show that that precedent has already been set? There are many online things that cannot be consumed by unblessed clients.

feanaro 5y ago
Surely the fact that a single blemish exists does not imply that we should just curl up in a hole and admit defeat. The fact that Widevine exists does little to damage the core of the above argument.
- lelandfe 5y ago
  My point is that this is fundamentally not a viable argument anymore: > If you are supposed to be able to access YouTube from Firefox or Chrome, then you are also supposed to be able to access it via youtube-dl Were this an axiom, services like Netflix simply could not exist. We're defeated whether we admit it or not – browser DRM is not being yanked from browsers anytime soon. That's not even talking about its forebears, like Silverlight, Flash, Applets, etc.
  - feanaro 5y ago
    The difference is DRM is a technical-only measure in most countries. The services employing DRM are scumbags, but they're welcome to try it. That doesn't mean that ridiculous positions such as trying to legally forbid access to a website other than through a handful of sanctioned browsers is going to fly.

paulcole 5y ago

I can go to an all you can eat restaurant with my empty stomach. I can’t go to an all you can eat restaurant with an empty garbage bag to fill up with food for later.

leothecool 5y ago
As a garbage bag manufacturer, can you advertise that your garbage bags are for that purpose?
- paulcole 5y ago
  No. But there are many great, moral, and legal uses for garbage bags which can be advertised.
feanaro 5y ago
It's a cute analogy, except it fails to explain why youtube-dl is the garbage bag in this instance. If we step away from analogies for a bit, are you actually arguing that we shouldn't have the ability to modify the markup and the code before we display it on our computers? If you insist on making a cute physical analogy, a more apt one would be of a tyrant buying out all the stores and allowing free entry on the condition that people's eyelids are forcibly taped open before they enter. After some reasonable people start removing the tape from their eyelids, the tyrant throws a tantrum and attempts to legislate away removing eyelid tape.
- paulcole 5y ago
  > it fails to explain why youtube-dl is the garbage bag in this instance No it doesn't. The buffet lets me eat as much as I want while I'm in their restaurant following their house rules. The garbage bag lets me take food out of the restaurant and consume a much larger amount of food however/whenever/wherever I choose – something the restaurant has forbid me to do according to their rules. This feels very much like what Youtube DL allows me to do.
  - 5y ago