6 ms·

There's a decently populous anti-vax vegan community too.

Cosmin_C 5y ago
- rlt 5y ago
  I find it disheartening so many people are willing to gloat over fellow humans' deaths, regardless of the reason, some notion of "karma", "Darwinism", etc. (I am triple vaccinated, for the record)
  - ikt 5y ago
    what would you expect? sympathy for people who should know better?
    - rlt 5y ago
      No, simply abstain from celebrating death. Sympathy for their families. Acknowledgment you don’t know all the circumstances in their life, and we all have varying levels of susceptibility to disinformation.
- gpt5 5y ago
  I'm not sure that COVID anti-vax is a good example of Darwinism. Out of the 950K deaths from COVID in the US, only 6K are under 30 years old - hence less likely to have reproduced.
- searealist 5y ago
  Hasidic Jews have 4.1 children on average, it's still Darwinism, just the opposite of what you think.
  - Arnt 5y ago
    There's a mosque around the corner where I live. I see old people go in and out, hardly any teenagers. Just like in the church to which my parents-in-law once brought us. How many of those hasidic jews' 4.1 children keep the faith, and how many get a career instead? 0.5, 1.5, 2.5, 3.5? If it's 3.5 I'll have to ask why they succeed so well.
    - alignItems 5y ago
      3.9
      - Arnt 5y ago
        Wow. How did they succeed so well? Do you have a source?
        alignItems 5y ago
        They succeed in part by insulating their children from Western culture (no TV, no Internet, little interaction with outsiders), and by giving them very little in terms of secular education, so that getting a career is not really an option for most.
        Arnt 5y ago
        Israel permits parents to block basic education of their children?
        beagle3 5y ago
        Unfortunately, for the ultra orthodox, yes. The parliamentary system is a majority coalition, and more often than not, the ultra orthodox parties are the kingmakers, so they get a lot more influence than one would expect. Specifically, they are exempt from the standard Israeli STEM + foreign language curriculum (which is quite comprehensive - to graduate highschool, you need passing grades in standardized tests that includes -- among other things -- English, Math, at least one of biology/physics/chemistry, literature, history, Hebrew, sometimes bible studies -- depends on the government at the time). You have to have 20 credits among these - at least 3 in English, at least 3 in Math, and there are more requirements). About 10 years ago, there was a government they were not part of, and this exemption was removed ; but the following cycle, they were kingmakers again and it got reinstated. Edit: Added some details about the Israeli curriculum.
- Borrible 5y ago
  Actually, the 'Spanish' flu would be a better example. As influenza in general. Young children are a high risk group. But as Nietzsche said, "Out of life’s school of war—what doesn’t kill me, makes me stronger." https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/why-did-1918-flu-kill-so-many-otherwise-healthy-young-adults-180967178/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/why-did-1918-flu-kill... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza
  - candiodari 5y ago
    "what doesn’t kill me, makes me stronger." Do enough medicine and you'll see just how wrong this is. Every medical issue leaves damage on your body. Mostly very small. Even fractures, the example often given, yes, a broken bone grows back stronger ... and less flexible, more brittle and heavier, more calcified, with less blood going through it a fact it will not cease to remind you off once you turn 55 or so.
    - Borrible 5y ago
      Not to be misunderstood, that Nietzsche quote was a sarcastic comment on some strange lines of thought one can find in the anti-vaccination fringes. Another one is 'God wills it' and another one is, it's 'natural' or 'pure'. As an extreme, you can find that strange mix of sentimental almost pseudo-religious nature enthusiasm, magical thinking and barbarism in National Socialism. They were obsessed with the healthy Aryan body, albeit its rulers themselves for the most part not exactly the most outstanding specimens. Metaphors of health, disease, and parasitism in the racial corpus permeate the whole ideology like metastasized cancer. Of course, the Reich just needed healthy soldiers, ruthlessly against the weak amongst themselves and the enemy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler_and_vegetarianism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler_and_vegetarianism https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07409710903149744 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0740971090314974... https://www.cairn-int.info/article-E_VIN_113_0029--the-nazis-and-nature.htm https://www.cairn-int.info/article-E_VIN_113_0029--the-nazis... https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/standing-up-for-the-truth-about-homeopathy-and-nazi-medicine-1.2138835 https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/standing-up-for-the... --- Now on to my 50 squats per hour. Mens sana in corpore sano
- dang 5y ago
  Please do not post unsubstantive or flamebait comments. It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
onion2k 5y ago
Many vaccines aren't vegan-friendly (they're often grown in eggs), and pretty much all of them go through animal testing stages during clinic trials. It's not at all surprising that vegans would be anti-vax.
- sofixa 5y ago
  Children aren't vegan-friendly either, and the vaccines in question are mostly for children, so does it really matter?
  - waffleiron 5y ago
    Children aren’t vegan-friendly, please explain?
    - genocidicbunny 5y ago
      Unless carefully managed, a vegan diet has a chance of lacking some critical nutrients for the development of young children. I think a vitamin B12 deficiency is common.
      - waffleiron 5y ago
        Thats the same for any infant diet, doesn’t mean it’s impossible. Second, breastfeeding is vegan too (if the mother consents ;) ).
        candiodari 5y ago
        Meat/fish and byproducts are generally considered a "quick fix" for a great many dietary issues. Giving a baby something with meat in it once a week when they start feeding, once a month after 2 years (or more often) will fix most diets. Any real vegan diet will need to consider a great many factors. Even vegan diets that aren't going to kill you in the long term are still going to cause problems. For example, a vegan diet with >60% fruit (or fruit and grains), will cause amino acid shortages. Too little fruit, of course, causes Vitamin C shortages. Luckily it's easy to fool yourself into eating meat. Many forms of candy, for example, are meat byproducts. So is, of course, a latte.

rlt 5y ago
I find it disheartening so many people are willing to gloat over fellow humans' deaths, regardless of the reason, some notion of "karma", "Darwinism", etc. (I am triple vaccinated, for the record)
- ikt 5y ago
  what would you expect? sympathy for people who should know better?
  - rlt 5y ago
    No, simply abstain from celebrating death. Sympathy for their families. Acknowledgment you don’t know all the circumstances in their life, and we all have varying levels of susceptibility to disinformation.
gpt5 5y ago
I'm not sure that COVID anti-vax is a good example of Darwinism. Out of the 950K deaths from COVID in the US, only 6K are under 30 years old - hence less likely to have reproduced.
searealist 5y ago
Hasidic Jews have 4.1 children on average, it's still Darwinism, just the opposite of what you think.
- Arnt 5y ago
  There's a mosque around the corner where I live. I see old people go in and out, hardly any teenagers. Just like in the church to which my parents-in-law once brought us. How many of those hasidic jews' 4.1 children keep the faith, and how many get a career instead? 0.5, 1.5, 2.5, 3.5? If it's 3.5 I'll have to ask why they succeed so well.
  - alignItems 5y ago
    3.9
    - Arnt 5y ago
      Wow. How did they succeed so well? Do you have a source?
      - alignItems 5y ago
        They succeed in part by insulating their children from Western culture (no TV, no Internet, little interaction with outsiders), and by giving them very little in terms of secular education, so that getting a career is not really an option for most.
        Arnt 5y ago
        Israel permits parents to block basic education of their children?
        beagle3 5y ago
        Unfortunately, for the ultra orthodox, yes. The parliamentary system is a majority coalition, and more often than not, the ultra orthodox parties are the kingmakers, so they get a lot more influence than one would expect. Specifically, they are exempt from the standard Israeli STEM + foreign language curriculum (which is quite comprehensive - to graduate highschool, you need passing grades in standardized tests that includes -- among other things -- English, Math, at least one of biology/physics/chemistry, literature, history, Hebrew, sometimes bible studies -- depends on the government at the time). You have to have 20 credits among these - at least 3 in English, at least 3 in Math, and there are more requirements). About 10 years ago, there was a government they were not part of, and this exemption was removed ; but the following cycle, they were kingmakers again and it got reinstated. Edit: Added some details about the Israeli curriculum.
Borrible 5y ago
Actually, the 'Spanish' flu would be a better example. As influenza in general. Young children are a high risk group. But as Nietzsche said, "Out of life’s school of war—what doesn’t kill me, makes me stronger." https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/why-did-1918-flu-kill-so-many-otherwise-healthy-young-adults-180967178/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/why-did-1918-flu-kill... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza
- candiodari 5y ago
  "what doesn’t kill me, makes me stronger." Do enough medicine and you'll see just how wrong this is. Every medical issue leaves damage on your body. Mostly very small. Even fractures, the example often given, yes, a broken bone grows back stronger ... and less flexible, more brittle and heavier, more calcified, with less blood going through it a fact it will not cease to remind you off once you turn 55 or so.
  - Borrible 5y ago
    Not to be misunderstood, that Nietzsche quote was a sarcastic comment on some strange lines of thought one can find in the anti-vaccination fringes. Another one is 'God wills it' and another one is, it's 'natural' or 'pure'. As an extreme, you can find that strange mix of sentimental almost pseudo-religious nature enthusiasm, magical thinking and barbarism in National Socialism. They were obsessed with the healthy Aryan body, albeit its rulers themselves for the most part not exactly the most outstanding specimens. Metaphors of health, disease, and parasitism in the racial corpus permeate the whole ideology like metastasized cancer. Of course, the Reich just needed healthy soldiers, ruthlessly against the weak amongst themselves and the enemy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler_and_vegetarianism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler_and_vegetarianism https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07409710903149744 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0740971090314974... https://www.cairn-int.info/article-E_VIN_113_0029--the-nazis-and-nature.htm https://www.cairn-int.info/article-E_VIN_113_0029--the-nazis... https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/standing-up-for-the-truth-about-homeopathy-and-nazi-medicine-1.2138835 https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/standing-up-for-the... --- Now on to my 50 squats per hour. Mens sana in corpore sano
dang 5y ago
Please do not post unsubstantive or flamebait comments. It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Many vaccines aren't vegan-friendly (they're often grown in eggs), and pretty much all of them go through animal testing stages during clinic trials. It's not at all surprising that vegans would be anti-vax.

sofixa 5y ago
Children aren't vegan-friendly either, and the vaccines in question are mostly for children, so does it really matter?
- waffleiron 5y ago
  Children aren’t vegan-friendly, please explain?
  - genocidicbunny 5y ago
    Unless carefully managed, a vegan diet has a chance of lacking some critical nutrients for the development of young children. I think a vitamin B12 deficiency is common.
    - waffleiron 5y ago
      Thats the same for any infant diet, doesn’t mean it’s impossible. Second, breastfeeding is vegan too (if the mother consents ;) ).
      - candiodari 5y ago
        Meat/fish and byproducts are generally considered a "quick fix" for a great many dietary issues. Giving a baby something with meat in it once a week when they start feeding, once a month after 2 years (or more often) will fix most diets. Any real vegan diet will need to consider a great many factors. Even vegan diets that aren't going to kill you in the long term are still going to cause problems. For example, a vegan diet with >60% fruit (or fruit and grains), will cause amino acid shortages. Too little fruit, of course, causes Vitamin C shortages. Luckily it's easy to fool yourself into eating meat. Many forms of candy, for example, are meat byproducts. So is, of course, a latte.