4 ms·

Use linux? My next PC I am making the switch.

adhesive_wombat 5y ago
Dual boot on your current PC, no time like the present. Bonus: you add years to the useful life of the machine, because most Linuxes fly even when Windows chugs.
- jimbob45 5y ago
  Fifteen minutes to get up and running with Ubuntu or Mint if you stay focused. A lot of people don’t realize that LibreOffice, Steam, and Discord are all fully usable on Linux these days.
  - hutzlibu 5y ago
    Have you watched the video, this guy linked? It basically tries this, from the perspective of a linux beginner switching from windows. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30585462 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30585462 It is 15 minutes, if nothing goes wrong and you know what you are doing. If something goes wrong and you are not native with the terminal - good luck.
    - adhesive_wombat 5y ago
      The point was not that Linux is grandma-friendly as an OS, the point was that you do not necessarily have to delay installing it until you get a new computer, and may even negate the need for a new computer (certainly it's added years to various laptops in my orbit).
      - hutzlibu 5y ago
        "Fifteen minutes to get up and running with Ubuntu or Mint if you stay focused." This sounds to me like it is all easy and if it takes longer than 15 minutes, it is my fault for not being focused. Well, as a matter of fact, I did install linux on various devices, dozen of times. And with my own customized manjaro install usb stick even in less than 15 minutes, with all my needed software up and running. But I would never, ever tell anyone that he can expect a flawless install in 15 minutes. This is not realistic. It may happen, if you are lucky - but there are too many buggy drivers and compatibility issues and even official mainstream distros getting shipped with major open bugs, that this advise is just receipt for disapointement.
  - acomjean 5y ago
    And zoom. I know Linux but I’m not a sys admin by any stretch. I’ve been using Linux as my personal laptop for 3 years now. It updates itself and has required hardly any manual intervention (just once I had to command line for an upgrade. Generally it’s justed worked. The upgrader/installers are not perfect but it’s hardly so difficult that software developer would find it daunting.
  - Loughla 5y ago
    Switched my family to Mint a while ago. It is genuinely seamless. They didn't notice, other than the background changed (and I slowed my haranguing them about virus safety). Not all Steam games are available, but enough are to keep you busy.
mftb 5y ago
I did. If you're a developer, for a personal machine it's both easy and straightforward (I have work provided machines that use other OS's but that's outside the scope of this post). Do a little research on HW that works well with Linux (I went all AMD). Purchase, wipe, install distro of your choice (I went with Manjaro, because of Arch, doesn't really matter). It's been about 2 years and I haven't had a single serious issue (serious as defined here is, can't boot or non-functional HW). I'm running most of the latest stuff, Sway on Wayland, pipewire, etc...
- alias_neo 5y ago
  Better yet. Buy from a company that won't charge you for the Windows licence you don't want. I'm a developer. I am also exclusively a nix/BSD user for about the past decade; my machines, servers, my wife's laptop, my work laptop etc, all nix/bsd. When I bought my personal XPS 13 I contacted DELL customer support to buy a "Developer" version, it took 3 weeks to ship because they had to build it, rather than provide an off-the-shelf box with Windows pre-installed, but I saved something like £43. It's not about the money, but I would rather have it in my pocket than give it to Microsoft for some software I _really_ don't want (or need). Side note, I'm planning on buying a Framework next.
  - mftb 5y ago
    Nice and yea, I would definitely consider going this route in the future.
Gareth321 5y ago
Not a good alternative for the big middle distribution of computer skills of the computer user base. Web browser only? Great. Highly skilled? Great. Everyone else? It can be a nightmare. Linus' Linux Challenge videos (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0506yDSgU7M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0506yDSgU7M) provide excellent insight into the typical user experience for anyone beyond web browser only requirements and beneath administrator level. If you find yourself saying "what an idiot, how did he not know that "do as I say" would mangle his OS," you're definitively in the highly skilled camp. Linux UX convention relies on the terminal as a matter of course. Almost everything not in the package manager requires use of the terminal. Even many of the package managed applications require tweaks and configuration via terminal. It's an open secret that package managers are largely inferior to the terminal anyway, in every distribution. The almost universal response to "I am having an issue with the package manager" is "use terminal." Bottom line: terminal is far less user friendly than an object oriented environment, and is often much slower. Until a flavour of Linux exists which never ever, for any reason ever, requires the use of the terminal, Linux will remain in the low single digits in terms of consumer market share. I don't think this will change, because if you ask the average Linux developer what they think of the terminal convention, they love it, and they think users just need to stop sucking so much.
- DoingIsLearning 5y ago
  Whenever people mentioned Linux UX and computer knowledge I always feel like I should evangelize that Zorin OS is alive and well, now at Zorin Core 16. I use it for my parents, after they got fed up with Windows warnings and pop-ups for Windows 10 upgrade. I am not sure they full understand they are using Linux, they just assume it is a 'free' windows version.
  - tartoran 5y ago
    Can you compare Zorin to Ubuntu?
    - DoingIsLearning 5y ago
      Zorin 16 is based on Ubuntu 20.04.3, so everything you are used to is still there. The only difference is in the UI, with 'Windowish' looking widgets and a focus on usability for non-technical folks. There are some more extra bells and whistles, as well as service support, in the pro version but I haven't used those in my family computers so I can't comment on that. I don't want to be dismissive, Zorin is a massive effort but it is mostly a DE change, but it's a DE where they actually thought of the typical non-technical user and cater brilliantly to that.
godmode2019 5y ago
You can just put linux on a USB and boot it from the USB on each startup. Makes it easy to try before you commit to dual booting.
JeremyNT 5y ago
This doesn't actually solve the problem, though. What's going on is that more systems are becoming reliant on "secure computing" to work properly, so (e.g.) Netflix won't stream full quality to your Linux PC. On its own that may not seem like much, but the screws are being turned (albeit slowly). We'll reach a point where the only way to access any proprietary content on the web will also require running proprietary operating systems on DRM enabled hardware using secure boot. Banking sites won't work, video playback won't work, even access to textual content will eventually be restricted. This is because the browser vendors, the OS vendors, and the content distribution platforms are all colluding to create this future. Linux on the desktop doesn't have enough users to push back in a meaningful way against this trend at this point (and I say that as a Linux user). 10 years ago, maybe, but now it's simply too late. Sure you'll still be able to run open source software on your Linux PC, and write your own code and run it, but you'll be prevented from accessing huge chunks of the Internet.

Dual boot on your current PC, no time like the present. Bonus: you add years to the useful life of the machine, because most Linuxes fly even when Windows chugs.

jimbob45 5y ago
Fifteen minutes to get up and running with Ubuntu or Mint if you stay focused. A lot of people don’t realize that LibreOffice, Steam, and Discord are all fully usable on Linux these days.
- hutzlibu 5y ago
  Have you watched the video, this guy linked? It basically tries this, from the perspective of a linux beginner switching from windows. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30585462 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30585462 It is 15 minutes, if nothing goes wrong and you know what you are doing. If something goes wrong and you are not native with the terminal - good luck.
  - adhesive_wombat 5y ago
    The point was not that Linux is grandma-friendly as an OS, the point was that you do not necessarily have to delay installing it until you get a new computer, and may even negate the need for a new computer (certainly it's added years to various laptops in my orbit).
    - hutzlibu 5y ago
      "Fifteen minutes to get up and running with Ubuntu or Mint if you stay focused." This sounds to me like it is all easy and if it takes longer than 15 minutes, it is my fault for not being focused. Well, as a matter of fact, I did install linux on various devices, dozen of times. And with my own customized manjaro install usb stick even in less than 15 minutes, with all my needed software up and running. But I would never, ever tell anyone that he can expect a flawless install in 15 minutes. This is not realistic. It may happen, if you are lucky - but there are too many buggy drivers and compatibility issues and even official mainstream distros getting shipped with major open bugs, that this advise is just receipt for disapointement.
- acomjean 5y ago
  And zoom. I know Linux but I’m not a sys admin by any stretch. I’ve been using Linux as my personal laptop for 3 years now. It updates itself and has required hardly any manual intervention (just once I had to command line for an upgrade. Generally it’s justed worked. The upgrader/installers are not perfect but it’s hardly so difficult that software developer would find it daunting.
- Loughla 5y ago
  Switched my family to Mint a while ago. It is genuinely seamless. They didn't notice, other than the background changed (and I slowed my haranguing them about virus safety). Not all Steam games are available, but enough are to keep you busy.

mftb 5y ago

I did. If you're a developer, for a personal machine it's both easy and straightforward (I have work provided machines that use other OS's but that's outside the scope of this post). Do a little research on HW that works well with Linux (I went all AMD). Purchase, wipe, install distro of your choice (I went with Manjaro, because of Arch, doesn't really matter). It's been about 2 years and I haven't had a single serious issue (serious as defined here is, can't boot or non-functional HW). I'm running most of the latest stuff, Sway on Wayland, pipewire, etc...

alias_neo 5y ago
Better yet. Buy from a company that won't charge you for the Windows licence you don't want. I'm a developer. I am also exclusively a nix/BSD user for about the past decade; my machines, servers, my wife's laptop, my work laptop etc, all nix/bsd. When I bought my personal XPS 13 I contacted DELL customer support to buy a "Developer" version, it took 3 weeks to ship because they had to build it, rather than provide an off-the-shelf box with Windows pre-installed, but I saved something like £43. It's not about the money, but I would rather have it in my pocket than give it to Microsoft for some software I _really_ don't want (or need). Side note, I'm planning on buying a Framework next.
- mftb 5y ago
  Nice and yea, I would definitely consider going this route in the future.

Gareth321 5y ago

Not a good alternative for the big middle distribution of computer skills of the computer user base. Web browser only? Great. Highly skilled? Great. Everyone else? It can be a nightmare. Linus' Linux Challenge videos (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0506yDSgU7M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0506yDSgU7M) provide excellent insight into the typical user experience for anyone beyond web browser only requirements and beneath administrator level. If you find yourself saying "what an idiot, how did he not know that "do as I say" would mangle his OS," you're definitively in the highly skilled camp. Linux UX convention relies on the terminal as a matter of course. Almost everything not in the package manager requires use of the terminal. Even many of the package managed applications require tweaks and configuration via terminal. It's an open secret that package managers are largely inferior to the terminal anyway, in every distribution. The almost universal response to "I am having an issue with the package manager" is "use terminal." Bottom line: terminal is far less user friendly than an object oriented environment, and is often much slower. Until a flavour of Linux exists which never ever, for any reason ever, requires the use of the terminal, Linux will remain in the low single digits in terms of consumer market share. I don't think this will change, because if you ask the average Linux developer what they think of the terminal convention, they love it, and they think users just need to stop sucking so much.

DoingIsLearning 5y ago
Whenever people mentioned Linux UX and computer knowledge I always feel like I should evangelize that Zorin OS is alive and well, now at Zorin Core 16. I use it for my parents, after they got fed up with Windows warnings and pop-ups for Windows 10 upgrade. I am not sure they full understand they are using Linux, they just assume it is a 'free' windows version.
- tartoran 5y ago
  Can you compare Zorin to Ubuntu?
  - DoingIsLearning 5y ago
    Zorin 16 is based on Ubuntu 20.04.3, so everything you are used to is still there. The only difference is in the UI, with 'Windowish' looking widgets and a focus on usability for non-technical folks. There are some more extra bells and whistles, as well as service support, in the pro version but I haven't used those in my family computers so I can't comment on that. I don't want to be dismissive, Zorin is a massive effort but it is mostly a DE change, but it's a DE where they actually thought of the typical non-technical user and cater brilliantly to that.

godmode2019 5y ago

You can just put linux on a USB and boot it from the USB on each startup. Makes it easy to try before you commit to dual booting.

JeremyNT 5y ago

This doesn't actually solve the problem, though. What's going on is that more systems are becoming reliant on "secure computing" to work properly, so (e.g.) Netflix won't stream full quality to your Linux PC. On its own that may not seem like much, but the screws are being turned (albeit slowly). We'll reach a point where the only way to access any proprietary content on the web will also require running proprietary operating systems on DRM enabled hardware using secure boot. Banking sites won't work, video playback won't work, even access to textual content will eventually be restricted. This is because the browser vendors, the OS vendors, and the content distribution platforms are all colluding to create this future. Linux on the desktop doesn't have enough users to push back in a meaningful way against this trend at this point (and I say that as a Linux user). 10 years ago, maybe, but now it's simply too late. Sure you'll still be able to run open source software on your Linux PC, and write your own code and run it, but you'll be prevented from accessing huge chunks of the Internet.